Bittersweet Candy Bowl

I miss the real non-comic debate.

Well, I would if we had had any.

So I decided to pose this question: What do you think of the Internet? Is it good, bad, something inbetween; shortly put, is it a boon?
Now, I realise that most of you will consider it to be a great invention. And sure enough, there are lots of positive aspects: It is a quick and (mostly) reliable information network, it has many ways of keeping contact with old friends (or making new ones), it provides entertainment and even wisdom, and, well, we have webcomics. ^_^

But, like most other things, it has its dark sides. If reliable information is spread quickly, so are lies. The Internet also has a way of dragging people in; some (though these are anomalies) even retreat into cyberspace and never come out. The Internet has *shudder* goatse. And, with the introduction of social networks like Facebook and Myspace, terms like “friend” and “love” have lost a lot of their meaning.

I’m not trying to make a point here. I’m just asking for your opinions on the matter, and hoping for a good discussion.

Me? I think the Internet is a good thing, provided it comes in moderation. It shouldn’t substitute real life, but be a supplement to it. And frankly, it’s not something I would wish upon my children. But certainly, it has done a world of good as well.

That’s my two… twenty cents. Yours? ^_^

I’m not quite sure about the net.

One the one hand, it makes things like art and debate more readily available to those of us in less cultured area’s of the world, allowing them to learn more than they could normally, helping them form their own opinions of the world more freely.

On the other hand, with that proliferation of information, people who are easily led and manipulated see things that conform with their world view, supporting and enforcing bigotry and stuff like that. It also allows those of us afraid of what the world really is to hide away in the mists of anonymity the net so readily offers, safely tucked away in our homes with like minded people, mocking readily those that we think struggle through life, and yet never really living ourselves.

It’s a real point of view thing in my opinion.

Profound mate, very profound…

I think the internet is great, however, I dislike it when it replaces actual human interaction. Now, it’s great when online friends meet, like when Taeshi came to America and met a few of her fans/old internet friends and how I found that one of my internet friends went to my college. However, that has downsides as well since, as ILB said, people can lie.

The internet’s a cool place. Meh, meeting cool people and seeing a lot of awesome and/or funny stuff and doesn’t afraid of JACK CRAP.

But the internet can also suck. It can suck HARD. Especially when you get even a single iota of attention. Then you get stupid questions out the ass. And if you try to defend others from a lowly tard, you get spammed all to hell from them. I’ve suffered from quite the number of spammers in my day on deviantart and youtube.

In fact, i’m sure at least some of you here might remember a user by the name of Favic. This… rarity of a human being starts spamming the crap out of two artists on dA and sheezyart asking for them to watch his gallery filled with crappy MS paint vomit. They don’t do so. He still badgers them and anyone that gets in their way with some of the worst grammar i’ve ever seen. Seriously, it’s so bad, he can’t NOT be serious. It’s like Hans von Hozel on fanfiction.net, only worse. So he gets banned from dA and sheezy about, oh, i dunno, a dozen times. Then the guy moves to youtube, makes another couple dozen accounts to talk to himself with (also not joking) consisting of crap MUGEN fights and shipping every single Sailor Moon character with Sephiroth while still bugging the living crap out of the two previous artists’ youtube pages. I’ll just let that sink in. And this was back in, like, 2006. AND HE’S STILL AT IT TODAY.

Oh, and then there’s the genuine idiots who amplify their twice-the-size-of-their-heads ego like that Sonichu guy and Jack Thompson who do the most stupid and hateful things i’ve ever seen and take absolutely no responsibility for them.

As far as spending time on the net, i don’t use it for all the social network bullcrap. I barely touch all those things. I have AIM so i can talk to my real-life friends while they’re away and the few online friends i have and that’s it.

I googled Sonichu because of you, DavCube. Look at what you’ve done to me. I am a broken man.

I think this is meant to be one of the more serious threads BBQ, even for you.

What about net neutrality guys?
Believe it or not, I’m against it.

What do you mean?

Net neutrality means that ISPs can’t regulate the internet. The big fear is that if we don’t have it ISPs will start regulating the content you can and can’t receive (such as access to certain websites), and that they’ll prioritize what websites and data streams have faster connections. The second one will happen with absolute certainty, but I’m skeptical of the first one. But, the internet is way, way to big, and it costs ISPs crap tons of money for all the data you use, so we either get rid of net neutrality, or ISPs start charging you per megabyte.

A big consequence of no net neutrality is that torrenting will now suck.

Alright, I’ll be serious.

The only problem with the internet is that people get an audience and delusions of grandeur, or hide behind anonymity while screaming “shitcock” over and over. Pure anonymity brings out pure human nature. All the good and evil, the disgusting and the pure. There’s horrible stuff out there, but there’s horrible stuff everywhere in the world.

But it’s all pure freedom, baby.
And because of that, it’s beautiful.

@BBQ, I disagree. It doesn’t bring out pure human nature. I assume you’re referring to /b/, or just 4chan in general. I think the way people act on there is part because of anonymity, and partly because that’s the way other people already act on there.

Pure anonymity just gives a person free license to act as they please, not how they truly are.

And freedoms a dangerous thing without a structure to define it.

I love the internet. Without it, I would not be who I am today.

I have made more friends on the net when I was younger than I EVER managed to find in real life, and that gave me a rock to stand on, somewhere to go and talk, back when my real life consisted of two friends, a mirriad of home troubles, and constant bullying.

It got me into writing, because I actually had an audience who would read and critique my skills, as I did the same for them. This opened up a whole new world for me in the form of being creative, and set me on the course that has led me to becomming a film maker as I am now.

It gave me common ground, and set a foundation for me to form friendships with the people who are now my best friends, as we had something to talk about at school (The latest funny flash cartoon, or the newest news post on various websites).

It kept me sane for the year I spent in the middle of nowhere with my family, unable to ever see any of my real life friends due to distance, and unable to afford to go into the city to meet with them. I actually became physically ill from being so completely ejected from society as I was… But if not for my one outlet of the internet, it would have been much worse.

It has taught me harsh lessons about who to trust, and how to read between the lines of what people say and what they mean, using words alone, even without body language.

And finally, it gave me a place where I could be confident, and presise in my speach and actions, as those years and years of bullying have left me physically unable to do so in person most of the time.

Sure there’s dangers and pitfalls. But I could get stabbed any time I walk into the Valley in the city. That doesn’t mean I don’t still go there every Friday and meet with friends for dinner. Life is about taking calculated risks. And as long as you keep your head on straight, you’ll be fine.

As I said before. I love the internet. And nothing will change that for me.

Right, but if you get swept up in it, it means something inside you wanted to do it, no? And I’m not necessarily talking about 4chan, I’m talking about everything everywhere. The racists, the cultists, the sluts, etc. Something drives them to seek that kind of attention.

But I digress. I’m not trying to derail the topic into a philosophical discussion.

I heard once that who you really are is how you act when you don’t think you’re being judged. That’s how I see it, anyway.

I don’t think that’s true, the way people act is not black and white. Character and thought processes are much too dynamic for someone to have permanent set responses to every situation. Look at things from a scientific perspective. You underestimate the complexity of the human brain. Anonymity has just as much impact on someone as being on stage in front of a crowd, the way they act in either of those situations doesn’t measure their ‘true character’ just as much as talking to your friend would reveal your inner self. All these situations will bring bias into the way you act.

There are tons of quotes pertaining to what ‘reveals’ what you truly are, and none of them are true. You can’t know how someone truly is, ever. Even from a philosophical stand point you can’t.

That’s… actually, those are wise words, BBQ. Though debatable in wording, they do say something about humanity.

@Maverik: Yes, it’s true that everything is risky in some way or another. And I’m glad the Internet helped you like that.

But (to assume a contrary position): isn’t it possible that the web is more dangerous than a playground, a café, or even a back alley? We do not know how the anonymous world really affects people. Maybe it can be harmful on a psychological level to enter a world where you are not really yourself, and others aren’t themselves, either - perhaps the enormous possibilities we find can be crippling, even. And what about the children that might inadvertently come across something they never should, possibly something no one ever should, see?

We know that the virtual world has strange effects on people, or at least strange when compared to the real world. A lot of people have committed suicide because of something they encountered online; often it is highly probable that they wouldn’t have reacted to nearly such an extent if the same had happened outside of the Internet.

Note that I do not, necessarily, agree with all I have said in this reply. I merely want to cause contrast in order to trigger a discussion. Neither is everything directed at you, Maverik.

…

Hmm… Anyone want to be pro-web for the sake of argument? (Jay, I’m calling you out ^_^)

@ CaptainBaconMan: You’re right. Who you are in the bedroom is not who you are on the street is not who you are on the interwebs. So let me backtrack a little bit then: would you disagree that the anonymity brings out a completely new side? I think it’s something so poignant that, for me, it steals the show in regard to anything else that might be part of the human spirit or whatever fruity crap people call it.

@ ILB: The people who kill themselves because of what they read online make their own choices, and I completely disagree with the assertion that they might not have killed themselves if they hadn’t encountered it online. I’m not saying I don’t sympathize or that whatever emotional pain they feel doesn’t measure up to real physical pain, but any suicide whatsoever implies a degree instability, no?

I haven’t slept in three days. I am trying to find the right way to put stuff but it’s NOT WORKING. Dx

@ILB
I disagree. People always talk about how most people are “Not themselves” when they are on the internet or in any other anonymous situation. But tell me. Just when are you truely “Yourself”? Is it when you’re with your closest friends? Is it when you’re with you relatives? Is it when your alone in your bedroom?

Playing a video game? Writing a story? Talking to strangers? Loosing control of your emotions?

Which is the ‘real’ you? Can you even tell?

I propose that there IS no ‘real’ anyone. Because to see that person in their truest light, you would have to witness who they are in all situations, because you are an amalgamation of all those moments.

People are no more or less dangerous on the internet than they are anywhere else. They are who they are. If they’re the kind of person who would manipulate you, they’d do it regardless of medium. Believe me, I’ve encountered my fair share of these people in both ‘realms’.

As for people killing themselves… It’s the age old argument of “[Insert Popular Media Here] made me go on that killing spree!”. No. That [Insert Popular Media Here] may have triggered something in you. But it was there to begin with. If not that song or movie or game, than something else. Something someone said in passing, or something you witnessed in the street. The same logic applies to these people who have killed themselves over something on the internet.

And children? I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again. It is a parent’s job to regulate what their child can and cannot access, and it is also their job to teach that child the ability to make the correct jugement calls before giving them access to something they could misuse. I refuse the idea of “Censorship as a means to controle”. Simply because an idea could be harmful to one person/group, does not mean that everyone else must not have the means to experience it.

These are of course, simply my opinions. So take them as you will. But they are opinions I hold strongly.

Hey, people are making just the kind of posts I wanted them to ^_^

@BBQ: Can any person really be described as “stable”? Nearly all humans resort to violence in pressured situations. It takes a strong mind not to tell a lie if it is convenient at the time. And everyone, at some point, does things that they regret and wish they hadn’t done. Shortly put, every single person in the world is unstable if the right (or rather, wrong) levers are pushed. I’m not saying that everyone who kills themselves over online events never would have done it if the same had happened elseways, but we can’t say that the Internet (and those who use it) is completely without blame.

…Wow. I’m starting to feel depressed.

@Maverik: I would say that a person never is himself or herself. You’re right, every person is a conglomerate of the different settings, persons and events he/she has encountered. But there is something that is genuinely that person throughout everything: the clay that binds together. That is what I’m referring to. Naturally, each person has a slightly different mix there - or so I believe - but generally, I would say that the clay is basically the same for everyone. The events that people go through help shape them, same with the persons, and they change slightly for every setting. To this I agree wholeheartedly. But what is it that compels us to change? Why are we so easily shaped? My belief is that, being human, we have this “clay” that brings with it both bad and good aspects. Curiosity and selfishness, for instance, are traits I think all people share, though to different degrees. Online? We are freed from the regular bonds. 4chan could never have existed as a newspaper.

On your point about suicides, you may be right. I do not like to consider it the way you do, though; if it is there to begin with, anyone can be a mass murderer or a violent rapist. While I think we are basically saying the same thing with different words, I also believe that some settings will set people off even though they do not have any insanity in them. And, to put your argument into perspective: If there’s a “DESTROY THE WORLD” button somewhere, and someone presses it, you can’t blame it on the person for being stupid. You must also blame the creator for being stupid enough to create it, and the mechanism that caused the destruction.

…Probing your own mind is upsetting. *shudder*

As for your argument regarding children, I agree. Though it is nigh impossible for a parent to block access to all the shady and nefarious stuff on the net. I’ve seen people make arguments like “All the children today have seen it anyway, why can’t we post it?”. And that is a circular argument; if you are going to show it to them, naturally they will have seen it.


Though let me say this again, I assumed a contrary position to get counterarguments. I don’t want anyone to think that I am an anti-Internet extremist, because, well, why would I be here if I was? ^_^

@ ILB: Yes. A hundred times “yes,” there are people that can be described as stable. For starters, these people are mild, slow to anger and have a good sense of humor. They’re resilient. And yes, you can break anyone by pushing certain levers, but a lot of us just will ourselves to stability. I’m not saying there aren’t external forces that push and pull and influence us, but self-control will always always always be a mega-ultra-huge factor in it.

I can respect a good devil’s advocate. So, you know. Kudos.

the internet is a bad place full of bad people making inside jokes and excluding eachother

The Internet pretty much ruined me. It’s like I’ve peered into the very soul of humanity it’s self and see it for what it is; a violent monster with a sexual appetite for things that pervert the laws of both man and God. I can no longer look at my family, friends, and coworkers without wondering what dark vices they imbibe in under the veil of anonymity. The Internet is a series of tubes leading down into the black void that is the soul of man.

You know whats great about the internet?
It can make people feel so much better about themselves.
By showing how much it’s ruined others.

Sad but true