Bittersweet Candy Bowl

This topic is for any general Sonic-related stuff. What you think about the franchise, old experiences, nostalgia, fervent dislike…anything and everything.

…So, I guess I’ll start.

I get the feeling that a lot of people think that Sonic’s been going downhill for a while now, and I have to agree. But while many older fans say the trend started before the 3D era, I think it was more around the time of Sonic Heroes. Of course, my first real Sonic game experience was Sonic Adventure 2: Battle, so I’ll readily admit to being heavily biased.

The thing is, I considered SA2:B to be an awesome game, and it essentially defined for me what Sonic was all about. He ran around in three dimensions instead of two, he was made of polygons instead of pixels, and he lived in a human-filled world that had many parallels with our own. Yes, he still fought Robotnik, and, yes, the chaos emeralds were still a major factor. Sonic may not have moved as fast as in the old sidescrollers, but it looks like Sonic Team finally figured out how to remedy that (to a certain extent) in Sonic Unleashed.

However, SA2:B also became a personal minimum standard of quality. You know, something to measure past or future games against. And, in my personal opinion, none of the other 3D games seem to measure up. I mean, to me SA2 got a ton of stuff right:

1. The gameplay was an overall improvement and fine-tuning of an already successful formula established by the first Adventure; the action stages were back-to-back, the chao garden was further developed, and rather than having to endure six full storylines with wildly differing (and often potentially boring) gameplay styles between them, SA2 opted for a simple Good Guys vs. Bad Guys approach. Then they just swapped the player between speed, treasure hunting, and shooting levels, which either kept the gameplay fresh or at least reduced the tedium.

2. The storyline was both compelling and surprisingly deep for a Sonic game (MAJOR SPOILERS AHEAD FOR THE NEXT PARAGRAPH); for example, you figure “Oh, well, it’s obvious, right? That Shadow character didn’t look very trustworthy to begin with, and he clearly has ulterior motives. He’s going to stab Eggman in the back just like Perfect Chaos did. Surprise surprise.” Then, BAM! You know that kindly old researcher that the game mentioned a couple of times? Eggman’s been-dead-for-fifty-years grandfather who you thought was only there for reasons of background info? Well, turns out he’s the big bad. After getting royally screwed over in one of the biggest ways possible by the very people he was trying to help, the poor guy goes completely insane and turns hellbent on wiping out all of mankind. The way to do this? Manipulate your immortal, bio-engineered, now decidedly traumatized weapon-of-a-creation into taking up the cause of revenge (twisting and defiling certain precious memories works well). Have him find some semi-capable schmuck (a megalomaniacle family member will do since he or she is going to die anyway) and trick them into finding the chaos emeralds under the pretense of assured world domination. Then use said emeralds to ram an hyperballistic space colony into the earth, thereby shattering the planet and killing everyone. Not exactly standard Sonic fare, is it?

3. Sonic’s mandatory one-new-gimmick-per-game (rail grinding in this case) turned out to be genuinely good (or at least not annoying) and has been included in pretty much every console game since.

4. The game greatly expanded the world Sonic lived in. Sonic Adventure established that humans did indeed inhabit Sonic’s world, and that the hedgehog was seen as a hero. But SA2 took it even further. At least one country is seen to have a president. The world bears a lot of similarities to our own (such as having its own Taj Mahal) but also a number of differences (like having pyramids near a San Francisco-esque city). There’s a military organization with a ton of missiles, jets, aircraft carriers, and automated robots, which helps explain why Eggman/Robotnik can’t actually take over the world without the chaos emeralds. Also, at least one nation has a friggen’ space colony.

Aside from all that, the game just has all sorts of neat little nuances that seem well thought out. For example, the aforementioned space colony (a half-century-old structure) was built to harness the power of a all seven chaos emeralds at once. But how could the builders do that when such a feat had proven too difficult for even the modern Eggman? They designed the reactor core after the ancient shrine that once housed the chaos emeralds. That lost civilization somehow figured out how to control the damn things, so why reinvent the wheel? Just because you don’t fully comprehend ancient knowledge doesn’t mean you can’t pirate it for your own use.

So, anyway, I think the Sonic franchise headed downhill after that. Every game was either deficient in gameplay, storyline, or both. Sometimes I have to wonder if Sonic Team really puts that much effort into what they do these days. I mean, thoughtwise. I actually ended up resorting to reading the comics instead, since there was some semblance of drama there. And I used to HATE the comics. It got that bad for me.

Anyway, that was my bit for now. How about anyone else?

I miss the original premise of the sonic games.
A simple, fun plataform racing game.
Let’s face it, it was about speed over anything!

i miss when sonic was good and the fanbase wasnt shit



oh right

there was no such time

If I’m a fan, I’m a fan primarily through SatAM, as opposed to the games. I thought the original games were fairly fun, but I wasn’t really that good at them. I’m one of those gamers that has to backtrack to pick up the bonus whatever that I missed, which sort of defeats the point of the original games. Plus, a I kinda suck with platformers in general.

how to play sonic: hold right and press a every now and then and hope you dont die
but make sure to close your eyes while you do it because you might get a seizure if you look at the screen

What people want in a true Sonic game is momentum.
You gotta earn that speed and rings, and to do that it has to be worth playing over again.
Being a sonic fan is tough when part of the fanbase are asses and children too young to realize what a good game is.

Now what I want in a Sonic game is something I can enjoy over and over again.
I’ve finished Sonic Unleashed when my brother gave up on it.
I’ve read through most everything I can find on sonic. (wikipedia included)
And out of everything the Archie Sonic series is by far the most interesting.

Sonic started trussing inside of tails head as blood pooled out of the poor dead foxs leg and eye. Sonic fucked his eye until flies started to spin around the dead foxs body but this just made sonic hornier. Sonic said I want it anal. Sonic took his dick out of tails eye socket and grabbed tails tails. He shoved them up his ass and said its chili dog time.

…It’s also harder to be a Sonic fan when people are critizising him/ his series.
Not that I’m angry, I acknowlegde the streak of “less than average” games. (then again, they were games made for the new kids, not the hardcore fans)
But with all this heat I really can’t say in public that I’m a Sonic fan.
And he was what brought me into the art community.

The only thing I don’t understand is why there are geese in the backround.

A lot of sonic fans are about as sycophantic as Star Wars fans :\

I may be showing my “oldbie gamer” side here, but I feel that the Sonic series peaked with the combo game Sonic 3 And Knuckles and has gone steadily downhill from there. I’m hoping against hope that Sonic 4 is actually a proper new sonic game as advertised. >.

I still have hope for the Sonic franchise…not a lot of it, but the series was great once upon a time and can be again

@Moomanibe: Exactly what I meant. The original ones are what the real Sonic series was to me.

Shen: Hahaha. I have such awesome memories of playing sonic 3 with friends and trying to find hidden areas and glitches in the levels. I still haven’t played a game since then that captured that awesome out of control feeling.

Reboot the series by killing off every single fucking side character since the introduction of Tails. The cast looks like a god damned Banana Splits reunion.

Okay. Now, here’s a thought: what if they do to Sonic what they did to Mega Man? Realize their franchise is fucking terrible but still has fans, so they return to their roots and actually sort of redeem themselves?

Yeah. Sex objects.

Great. Just great. It was only a matter of time before this was brought up.

To me, the new games are dragged through the mud something fierce when only a few of them deserve more than a scolding and a short time out. (Those few being 06, Secret Rings, Black Knight, Chronicles, Riders, Zero Gravity, Battle, and other bad games from the past like Labyrinth and R.)

The other GBA and DS games performed marvelously, Heroes was given a little too much smack for mostly-optional gameplay, the flaws of the two adventure games were blown completely out of proportion (save for Big), and Shadow is its own thing, so it doesn’t really deserve to be put into the same category, regardless of its quality or lack thereof.

i have a game for you guys
take any tv show/movie/game thats been even remotely famous or mainstream over the past 15 years
now search it on deviantart and add the word “sonic”
more often than not, you will find what youre looking for
if you dont, use “anime” instead

sonic on the Seaga Master System is the ONLY sonic game worth playing.

Not really a Sonic fan (I only played Sonic 3) but I must say Sonic & Sega All-Stars Racing is a fun game. Really reminded me of CTR which is why I liked it so much.

@Hot&Spicy
Isn’t that what Sega’s doing with Sonic The Hedgehog 4?

@DavCube: “Heroes was given a little too much smack for mostly-optional gameplay

Are you sure you and I played the same Sonic Heroes? I played an incredibly buggy, ugly one that actually looked WORSE than SA2 and had some of the most intensely bad level and art design I’ve ever seen in a game. SA and SA2 had some decent moments, mostly the sonic stages, but Heroes is like they looked at the sonic stages and basically decided to make new ones while removing everything that actually made them entertaining..

Well Moonman, i was trying to accentuate the flaws that solely strike Heroes, rather than the same exaggerated flaws that were also present for Adventure 1 and 2, like the camera and control scheme. Most of the complaints i see arise from gameplay that comes from the extra missions, which are completely separate from the main game.

The new Sonic games are pretty good(SONIC unleashed,Sonic and the Secret rings, SATBK) it is just haters want to hate. I mean Sonic 4 is being made and what do you know…..HATERS ALREADY HATING. All im saying is that the Sonic Cycle is just idiots trying to hope for the perfect game like the old ones. For them the grass is greener back where they were before.

I just really hate haters,,,,,,,because most of them are idiots yelling about things that will happen in a game! In Sonic 1(used an emulator.) i fell though the freaking floor! A glitch is always a glitch. Im not saying the creators shouldn’t try, im saying haters must have a good reason to hate……..Or I will kill them…..IM SERIOUS!

Also……I liked Heroes. Sonic Heroes was trying to make a 3d sonic game feel like sonic……it did not fail, it was just bad glitches. Yes it should have been worked on more. Yes there should have been a better script. But it really, really, tried to make it work.

And in Sonic 3 and knuckles, when you chose a character, you start exactly at the first level……SO DID SONIC HEROES! Yes the story doesn’t make sense but its a game where a talking hedgehog goes to stop his evil metal counterpart, while figting of robots……..Dont think about the story, the game is more important!

It felt like a close 2d to 3d transition to me but some people hated to much…..it was the essence that mattered not the gameplay to me……

I wanted to feel like old school Sonic, and it felt like it………..

Am I the only one here who thinks that while the games are shitty, the soundtrack and songs are TOTALLY FUCKIN’ AWSOME!?

Jake I’m with you on this one here I like all the older games but almost all the new and old music.

neh i sort of enjoyed sonic heros a bit, though most;y because i enjy the comics and the music of the games

I know there are bad games, but Heroes(unlike the next SOnic games after on consle)at least tried!

Man when I was a kid, I used to love playing sonic adventure one and two. Then I played that sonic game for the 360 and I haven’t touched a sonic game since.

I actually liked Sonic Heroes a bit and absolutely liked Sonic Riders. Something about Riders was just right.

BTW, what do you guys think of Sonic Colors? It’s looking promising. Even the folks at Kotaku are speculating it’ll be the one to break the cycle (that and Sonic 4).

The first decent Sonic game that i’ve played since Adventures has, weirdly, been the one released for iPod Touch. I am addicted

Alot of people have said Sonic has been going downhill. I kinda agree, but I think a lot of people are taking it WAY too far. I’ve heard a lot of good things about Sonic Color so far though. I do hope it does well.

One thing I’ve noticed though, is that despite the flaws the games may have, Sonic the Hedgehog games have ALWAYS had awesome songs in them.

Also, I don’t really care for the comics. I don’t hate them, but I don’t like them either. They’re just…..there. Although I am surprised they’re still around (are they?).

yes the comics are still around, they have better writers these days so the story arcs are pretty good though still lighthearted

love the music from the 3d games, live and learn and city are my favorites so far

It’s Crush 40, as long as the 3Ds have music from them in it, even the worst games won’t be 100% bad.

I like All Hail Shadow, His World, Endless Possibilities, Dreams of an Absolution, Sonic Heroes, and Live and Learn.

Maybe its just the fact that I’m an idealistic bastard, but I still have faith in Sonic. Although its a special kind of faith. I want the games to do good and hope they will do good….buuuut I won’t be surprised if they end up sucking.

Sonic fandom, and furry fandom by extension, is like franchise AIDS.

Sega should start over by putting all of their fans in internment camps, gassing them and then rebuilding their fandom from scratch.

Well that’s….extreme.

So is Sonichu. I think the response is adequate.

anything past sonic 1 sucked look at my ~superior opinion~

I feel old…Sonic 2 was my first ever video game when I was like…5. I still have it and now have it along with 1 3 Sonic and Knuckles sonic CD (HUGELY confusing and AWESOME!) and sonic spinball (haven’t heard of it? There’s a reason) The one on 32X about knuckles is really cool too…but I can’t get a hold of a 32X. I can still beat Sonic 2 with like 25 lives. Can’t beat any of the others but still trying after almost 20 years. Still some of the most fun I have playing video games…Series these days…dunno…once Sega stopped making consoles I lost hope.

Would it be wrong to put up a link Sonic rap made by Duane and Brando?

…..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AoWwBcq4d7o

Blast off with Sonic Adventure on the Dreamcast. You will cry that they didn’t stick with it.

My first game was a Sonic game. Sonic 3. I loved it. Then I played SA and SA2 loved ‘em. Sonic Heroes: hated it even though I was the target audience. Years go by. Sonic ‘06. I said fuck the Sonic franchise, until info came out about Sonic Unleashed. I played it. Loved it. Except the werehog half of the game. I’m still floating in a ninth dimension of pissed off waiting until a Sonic game I can get behind appears.

I heard Sonic The Hedgehog 4 is good.

@King
You heard right. Reviews have been pretty positive.

http://www.metacritic.com/game/playstation-3/ sonic-the-hedgehog-4-episode-1