Bittersweet Candy Bowl

Haha, Paulo as a bard ^_^

Whenever I think of that class, I think of Elan from OotS. A bit of a strange association to have with Paulo, no?

@Pixelnator: I suppose it wasn’t too hard to see coming. Unfortunately, Augustus is not among the characters I have drawn. Warlock, or even Rogue, might suit him. I don’t feel like I know enough about him to guess his alignment, though. It’s probably non-Good is all I can say.

@ILB: Elan … Elan represented all the ways Bards could suck. I love the character, of course, but he did not make a very effective Bard. Hopefully Paulo doesn’t need a Prestige Class to be useful.

My turn again? Mostly agree with you this time save a few knitpicks.

Paulo could arguably be a rogue as you said, but bard is just as fitting. Personally.. I would have voted for Rogue (Or Swashbuckler even) simply because Paulo isn’t really the most mind of matter sort of kind (Bards are suppose to be knowledgeable after all) but it’s a minor complaint at best.

I will say that the 3e bard is actually considered quite powerful; stronger then Rogue, Fighter, Paladin, and all the martial classes once you get past lvl 5 (Assuming you play one intelligently of course). It’s not up to par to the ‘Wizard, cleric, druid’ types…but really NO one is at that point. So the whole idea of ‘bards before 4e are useless’ is quite silly. I blame J-RPG bards for this.

Pretty much the only time bard is lacking is lvl 1-2….after that you have a 75% of beating any warrior in the first round of combat and still being very useful in a team. 3e is horribly imbalanced when it comes to anyone with a spell list :/

The current arc is most certainly NOT shifting his alignment in anyway. He is good. Period. If anything the current arc is showing a lack of wisdom (He’s having trouble comprehending what Lucy and Tess’s problem is for example, and easily falling to Davids goading) not… really anything ‘evil’ to tip the scale.

Even good people can make mistakes. And.. making mistakes does not an alignment shift make. At his core he’d still be a good person.

I did like the 3E Bard. I’m not a power gamer or very good at rating classes, so when people tell me that “class X is overpowered” or “class Y is underpowered,” I take their word for it and play whatever I want, anyway. I completely agree that 3E had some major power imbalances in the core gameplay, which is one reason I’ve come to prefer 4E since things are generally more equal. Also, 4E makes it possible to play a Paladin/Ranger that doesn’t suck, which is cool in my book.

And I think you’re right. I don’t really think his alignment is shifting, at least not yet. There’s not really any indication he’ll do anything extremely out-of-character, but there’s still a few pages left, so I’m just hedging my bets … . And to be clear, I don’t think that anything he’s doing or might do is Evil, just maybe Neutral. At least we agree that Paulo’s Wisdom is lacking.

So, I just finished reading your argument. I had no prior experience with D&D, bar Order of the Stick (never understood the game-themed jokes), before reading - put it like this, I learned a lot. ^_^

I must say something about Paulo, though. I won’t have him as anything else than Good, so help me if you decide to change that. From what I can understand of D&D rules, Chaotic fits the bill nicely, but I wouldn’t put him as Neutral. He’s self-obsessed at times, but only where it doesn’t count, as it were. I would also say that his Charisma score is just as high as Mike’s, especially with recent events. Look at the chapter where we find out what race of cats they are, for instance, or to the fact that he made out with everyone in the 8th grade. Though Paulo was never shown to be as popular as Michael in the comic, that is probably due to the latter being the main character - Paulo apparently wooed a lot of ladies when he wasn’t in the frame. Oh, and Michael lost a lot of his popularity when he entered high school. I would say that they are equal in Charisma, possibly that Paulo has overtaken him.

But I really have no idea what I’m talking about. You’ve got the experience, after all. Don’t listen to the ramblings of a wannabe nerd ^_^

Naw you’re pretty much right there ILB…though I will say charisma has nothing to do with popularity. Popularity would be more of a… conditional modifier… as it only matters to some.

While yes:Mike has a freaking gang of Fangirls/Boys one must remember these are all people who want to DATE him, who are attracted to him. Not people who actually follow his every word or listen to his advice.

Real ‘charisma’ is suppose to be the ability to influence others. To make them believe what you say, or shift towards you point of view. The ability to convince and lead. You could be the best looking girl in school…but if you’re shy and timid and rarely let you voice be heard… your charisma is likely terrible as far as D&D rules are concerned. Being able to get peoples attention is important.. but being able to USE it is key.

How often have you seen Mike say something, make an argument, tell the honest to god truth and be utterly ignored, dismissed or Mocked? Pretty much.. constantly! While I will say Mike DOES have good charisma it isn’t as high as you might think it is for these reasons.

Paulo has shown to be quite capable to use word of mouth to actually convince people to do what he wants. I’d almost go as far to say that Paulo may have HIGHER charisma then Mike, or at the very least far more experience when it comes to just talking to people (Which in D&D terms would translate into Ranks in ‘Social skills&rsquo


On a side note.. yeah Who I wouldn’t really consider myself a power gamer either..most so just… ‘efficient’ I guess. I -always- come up with a concept of a character first.. who they are.. what they do. Role playing before roll playing as it were, with my three page long backgrounds of fun haha. Then I look at the system to see what the best way to make that character is while staying competitive. If that means making my warrior guy a Warblade over fighter to keep up with a party full of Wizards/Clerics so be it.

Probably true. Yes, I can see that I overlooked that point. Though popularity is often closely connected with charisma. ^_^

But wait - this means that David has an incredibly high charisma score…

Naw David has no such thing. You’ve got to remember there’s more to life then just your raw ability to convince others. If someone is your BEST FRIEND they’re going to have an easier time convincing you of something then a total stranger is… even if that stranger is more charismatic in nature. The circumstances always matter.

When have you really seen anyone but Paulo take David seriously? It also helps that David is hitting all of Paulo’s weaknesses here:making the boy worry about his honor, and self-image that he values greatly.

But you’re forgetting the way he was playing earlier. He knew exactly how to make people do what he wanted (truth and dare-games, for instance), and when he talked with David during the Acapulco arc he got some pretty good answers. He doesn’t only influence Paulo, but all of his friends. Though admittedly, those are isolated events that came to pass through trickery…

Wow these pics are always really good.
And I really like the Rose in Paulo’s mouth ^-^

I would of always expected him to rather play as a duelist or assassin due to his coniving side, his romantic skills, and his various skills.
But still Bard does sound like a good choice as well and hell you’re the one drawing all this stuff so it’s your choice.

@Jacob: Finally, someone talkin’ sense (that it’s my choice). =P Thanks. Hope to have the last two ready soon.

@The rest of you: I never said I thought Paulo had gone Neutral. I said that depending on how the rest of this arc plays out its possible his alignment could shift. There definitely was an “if” there. Yeesh. Oh well. Glad you pulled something useful out of this thread, ILB. Since I’ve been playing D&D so long, I’m really not sure how I’d look at OotS without a gamer’s lens, but it does have a strong narrative, anyway.

Regarding David’s sometimes uncanny knack to say something smart: Could be a mysteriously high Wisdom score. Or, as some say, “everyone rolls a natural 20 every now and again.” Maybe David has ranks in “Sense Motive (Paulo).” Or maybe it’s a plot device. Heh heh.

I do have to add that I feel dumb for getting over-concerned with Mike’s popularity and not thinking about the other aspects of Charisma regarding him. Sometimes I just shoot from the hip.

I know you said “if”, but my post was a preemptive strike. Never change Paulo’s alignment to Neutral, unless you want an unpleasant visit late at night. ^_^ I rather agree with Chaotic Good for him.

… That’s your thing, isn’t it? Unpleasant late night visits.

… .

Just hope he never stumbles upon a Helm of Opposing Alignments, or we get to see what Lawful Evil Paulo is like. Hmmmm … .

Oh, hey, I have another picture. This time it is David. He’s a Fighter, and Chaotic Stupid (see below). Note: When I picked Class/Alignment for David, I was thinking especially of what he would play as rather than what might fit best as the character. It might still work both ways, but I wanted to make that distinction clear.

http://i777.photobucket.com/albums/yy56/ DisingenuousFacade/BCB%20Fanart/ David_Barbarian_FinishedJPEG.jpg

Short Version

The Art: I lied. This one sucks the most.

The Fighter: They break stuff.

“Chaotic Stupid”: Chaotic Neutral taken to the wrong extremes.

Long Version

The Art: Well, David was by far the easiest to draw, but man, what is that thing he is swinging around? It’s supposed to be an axe, but I’ll level with you: I didn’t have an axe on hand to reference. And Google failed to show me a picture of the appropriate angle. Granted, this was fairly close to how I saw it in my mind, but it’s still kind of dumb and silly. At least he looks like he’s having fun.

The Fighter: Well, I’ll admit, at first I was going to pick Barbarian, but Bribri made me rethink that and I went with Fighter. Basically, if you play with no finesse, Fighters are a pretty simple class to play (especially 3E). Follow this simple format:

*Pick up Weapon of Choice.
*Apply Weapon of Choice to nearest enemy skull.

David strikes me as the kind of player who would be perfectly happy to just run around and smash shit, which a Fighter can do perfectly well if that’s how you choose to play it.

“Chaotic Stupid”: This is technically Chaotic Neutral, but it needs a little more explanation if you’re not familiar with D&D. A Chaotic Neutral character is concerned only with their individual freedom. While they do tend to follow their whims, they do not act randomly nor are they anarchists by nature. They do not have a Good nature to compel them to liberate others, and they do not have an Evil nature to compel them to cause pain. They are just completely individualistic.

Unfortunately, many players, whether accidentally or intentionally, believe that being Chaotic Neutral gives them liberty to do whatever the hell comes into their mind, whether that’s attack a sleeping dragon, throw the evil artifact into the blood pool, or slap the duchess’s ass. This is “Chaotic Stupid.” Rather than acting like a person who values their freedom and liberty, they play like a person who is not only completely psychotic, but who seems to lack a sense of self-preservation. One game I played in (the DM was Chaotic Stupid, too), one of the “Chaotic Neutral” players decided to throw the only artifact that could save the world into a black hole. Yes. And this was after they decided to rob and burn every town we passed through (was the Chaotic Evil? Oh, no! Because they are Chaotic Neutral, they can do anything!!).

Anyway, rant aside, I think that David is the more benign type of Chaotic Stupid. He’s not out to intentionally ruin the game like some players, but he just does whatever seems like a good idea to him. Unfortunately for the rest of the players, what David thinks is a good idea is usually lethal to the rest of them. He would probably quickly annoy the players who are actually trying to role play.

As a character, David is probably just plain Chaotic Neutral and probably lacks exceptionally high mental scores.

No real complaints, debates, or suggestions. Sorry! ^_^;;;;;;

So disappointing ;__; I enjoy writing those rants!

So sorry. =P Maybe you can rant about your own encounters with the Chaotic Stupid?

But, based on prior comments, you may have something to argue about when I finish Abbey.

david is one vunerable barbarian : /

I really liked the Paulo bard. Well drawn and accurate class choice I’d say too. Very cool. Great pose too.

Alright, time for the final piece in this little series. Abbey, the Lawful Good Paladin. Abbey is actually the character who inspired me to do this in the first place.

http://i777.photobucket.com/albums/yy56/ DisingenuousFacade/BCB%20Fanart/ Abbey_Paladin_FinishedJPEG.jpg

Short Version

The Art: Not terrible, but a bit rushed.

The Paladin: Abbey is righteous and wants to protect others.

Lawful Good: Personal honor good; good heart.

Long Version

The Art: Well, first off, I cannot imagine drawing Abbey if he is not frowning. Happy Abbey is hardly Abbey in my book. Also, I wish that I was better at drawing swords. Wish I knew how to make them look shiny, or like actual metal. Overall, I think that this is OK, but could have been improved. I drew Abbey last, so I don’t think he got as much attention as the others. Shame, too, since as I said, he’s the character that made me start thinking about all of this D&D stuff. Not much else to say about the drawing itself, though.

The Paladin: This just seems like the most natural pick for me. Not long after Abbey was introduced, I thought to myself “this guy is a Paladin!” Even if he doesn’t have the Charisma to make an ideal Paladin, I don’t think that would stop him from pursuing the path. He has the attitude for it. He seems like the kind of guy who could zealously fight evil in order to protect the weak. He wants to be a Warrior of Justice.

Lawful Good: It also so happens that he has the classic Paladin’s alignment. He’s very much with the order and the honor code and the being kind to the innocent (and the fighting of the bad guys). Unfortunately, he’s also the classic “moral compass of the party” because he believes that everyone should act like him. Now, I am making a bit of a generalization, but I’m thinking back to that big argument he had with Michael. Their alignments are very close already, but I think that Abbey (at least at that point) is very black-and-white in his outlook. His conflict with Paulo (I’ve never gotten the impression that Abbey likes Paulo) also makes sense because of the Lawful-Chaotic clash, even though they’re both Good. He’s mellowing a bit, at least, or so it seems.

So, that’s it. No more fan art. I’m done. But, before I sink back into obscurity, I have one more thing to post … .

If the six main characters would be players in a D&D game, I think that Sue would be the Dungeon Master (Mistress?). She has an interest in theatre and story-telling, it seems, so maybe she’d be interested in that role. So, I wrote a very brief excerpt of what I think a session with these guys might be like.

/Begin Exceprt

Sue: OK, you go through the north door and find yourself in an empty chamber. There are obvious exits to the east and west, and three levers on the far wall—

David: I pull all the levers!!

Sue: u__u*

Mike: o.O;

Lucy: -__-

Paulo: >_<;

Abbey: >._<*

Lucy: … Can I use David as an improvised weapon?

Sue: I think you need the Wield Dumbass feat for that.

/End Excerpt

Just my impressions, anyway. I’m not so good with the writing of the characters. I wonder how many TPKs David has been responsible for.

Yeah you knew I was going to disagree with this. But to be fair the only way I disagree with your here is that I think Abbey should be a Cleric rather then a Paladin…which really are rather similar classes if you’re rolling a LG cleric. But really I think you’re too focused on his earlier scenes and likely his situation with FF-CAT

The main reason I want to go cleric is because…. well just pay attention to how Abbey acts outside of his epic battles with FF-CAT. He’s been shown to be observant of what those around him are going through, often giving advice or simple encouragement, but at the same time willing to step back and let them find their own way as well such as the many times he felt it was wrong to ‘force’ Mike into doing something. Add that Abbey is far more mental then he is physical. Yes he punched FF-cat once… but the dudes a brain before he’s a raging bezerker.

All of this strikes me as far more Cleric then paladin. Or at the very least his ‘Wise adviser of good’ side is more prevalent then his ‘Vengeance seeking hero of justice!’ side. Enough to tip the balance to the caster.

For the matter beyond the final confrontation with FF-CAT all his interaction in that plot lined showed him being more aware of what was going on, while the others pretty much overlooked it without a care. It wasn’t simply his morals that made him take action, it was his WISDOM. He saw what the others brushed off as non-senseaisy was having problems and was being manipulated

And yes. I know. ‘Wise adviser of good’? More like freaking moral-fag pain in the ass D:

Well, I may have fixated on Abbey’s confrontation with Augustus, but I would like to counter that Wisdom is valuable to Paladins as well as Clerics, so that alone may not be an indication. Though perhaps we could compromise and say that he is a War Cleric.

I though for sure that Abbey would be a beserker… A lawful good one, but still… I mean just look at the fights he’s been in, he freaks out beats the snot out of people and is on his merry way, unless he gets his ass kicked in the prosses.