Bittersweet Candy Bowl

Im sure Kou is getting to that part suitcase, i mean if he just splurted the whole background story right away there would be no wondering… maybe even no real story >.>…. these things take time you know ;3

but yes criticism is always great to have. just has its limits

“Critique-discouraged people deserve all the venom they get from people like me who are willing to ignore their pleas. “

The rest of the topic aside, I can’t help but question this. What’s your goal? Is it to help someone improve, or is it just to state your opinion in a critical manner? The first is critique, the second is criticism — what movie reviewers do, basically.

If you really want someone to take your advice seriously, approaching those who specifically dislike it seems pretty counterproductive — especially if you’re going to do so “with venom”. Helping people improve often requires taking into account more than just “I’m looking at this art and it has ___ issues.” Things like motivation, skill level and knowledge, can seriously affect what sort of advice is the most effective. There’s so many people out there who want improvement and are open to critique, so why antagonize people pointlessly?

I don’t think it’s not so much a case of Kou not listening to criticisms… He very clearly does, as evidenced by “Goodbye Loneliness 2.0” where he went back and fixed the issues we had brought up to make his character less of a Mary Sue.

What does seem to be the case, is that Kou has a hard time distinguishing constructive criticism from blatant attacks against him and his work. And to be fair, Souppy is a very blunt and to the point kind of guy, and people who aren’t used to that will generally read it as hostility.

I agree IN PART with Souppy, that people who freak out about criticisms need to grow a tougher skin. But then that’s all part of growing as a creator.

In short, I believe that Kou will more than happily let us help him take a critical eye to his work, and will likely amend that which needs amending. But he wants to finish telling each segment first, because it’s (understandably) frustrating when someone cuts you off mid idea with ways they think you should change it, before they’ve seen if you’ve answered those concerns later.

I’m NOT saying “Leave all criticisms till after the story”. God no. But maybe be understanding that Kou will probably not look at implementing them until he’s finished each segment.

tl;dr
Kou: Keep doing your story. Learn to withstand criticisms better.
Everyone Else: Give Kou a chance to finish each idea before demanding he do something about his mistakes.

@Kariz
Exatcly what Mr. Kariz says,i cant give everything chewed(like we say here) what im meaning is he have a background story but i like to give a air of mistery to my characters past and is only being revealed later but some people want his past explained now ._.
@MOOMANiBE
Just like what he said sir.Hope you`re liking to read the comic.

Anyway
Heres the final page \o/

The emptiness of Kou Final

Edit: Thanks Maverik.

Oh also, I hadn’t mentioned this before but I’ll put it here now…

It IS possible to go through your childhood and have no friends. Especially after something as huge as your parents dying.

I spent 2 whole years friendless at a primary school from grades 2 - 3 due to me being arbitrarily targeted for ostracization. Only fixed it when I changed schools again. I also spent another entire year friendless in grade 11 due to being in a new school so close to the end, no group wanted an extra member at lunch breaks.

I also imagine that losing one’s parents would cause many people to withdraw socially for at least a while. This could also be the cause of Kou’s lack of friends from that time.

Or it could be something else entirely. Just saying.

Alright, a bit of development.
Of course Kou(jiro) has things to iron out, but like Taeshi Kou can redo the first chapters once he figures out how to make characters more realistic.
Now enough degrading him and help him with his stories if any of you have problems with it.

I just want to make sure i’m not being misinterpreted as somehow “jumping to the defense of kou” here. I’m talking about the philosophy expressed in that line I quoted, as a general principal, in particular as it seems to refer to “critique-discouraged” posts on dA. Posting a fanstory on a forum like this is… somewhat more fair game.

Edit: In addition, I completely support the position that having thick skin and accepting critique is a good idea. But I don’t believe in forcing it on people.

I guess I have to applaud Souppy for being so frank with his opnion, not enough people like that in the world, I do agree though, that constructive criticism helps us progress and make something better, to some people it’s an internal motivation to better their work.

Altough….If fanfiction from souppy is the end result of this conflict then… was it worth it? I think so.

”
I also think it’s inherently constructive to erode a person’s resistance to criticism, rude and unfounded or reasonable and honest. People who can’t respond to horrible comments with “I don’t see that, what do you mean?” need to grow up, in other words.”

I was guessing that was your main motivation, and I’ve seen people put it into practice before. I guess I’m just the more sensitive type but I think I’d rather coax someone into accepting criticism than bludgeon them into it. Your way is faster but has more… casualties, I guess I’d put it. Admittedly this is pretty ironic because I’ve had instructors look at my art and go “It’s completely wrong. Do it over from the beginning.” but I generally assume the average populace isn’t as used to being torn apart as people taking classes where that’s the entire point.

I get the underlying point you’re trying to make, and frankly I do think some people need to be put in their place, but in the case of someone who’s just earnestly trying to show that they like something, or writing / drawing for their friends, I think I’d rather take a more diplomatic path. I’m of the opinion that anyone can at least get decent at something if they put the effort into it and if they’re going to fail somewhere, I’d rather it be “I just don’t have the motivation to do this” than “Oh god everyone is so mean to me how does anyone ever get good at this.”

P.S.; Thank you for responding reasonably! I wasn’t looking forward to the fallout if I’d inadvertently started a flame war.

I’d do a comic.
Hell, I’ll do one by Tuesday of next week.

But it’s for class.
And not for your eyes.

I know, I know, you don’t have to thank me for wasting your time.
It’s been my pleasure.

“Anyone who fails because of “why is everyone being so mean to me” deserves to fail, to put it bluntly.”

I’ve been accused of being overly optimistic, but I’d like to think people can change where that’s concerned. At least that’s what I hope for when I try to give criticism to those who are sensitive. I think I understand your motivations, though, and I can respect that point of view enough to not make a pointless argument out of it. That said maybe Taeshi will do the arguing for me hurrhurr

Also: Kou, please do feel free to prove Suitcase wrong about your ability to take criticism. Everyone will respect you a lot more if you do.

@Taeshi
I know is a bit confusing to understand his life,but you ever thinked that he don`t want to talk everything about his past?Maybe its because is a bit painful for him to remember.But his past will be telled.

Well,i know i dont draw perfectily but im not saying that i draw bad too,it takes time to bee good.
And i prefer more writing than use digital lettering in a hand made comic.
And about criticism like Maverik said,if i didnt listen to them then why i did the “Goodbye Loneliness 2.0”?Because i listened to them of course.
Criticism are welcome but everything have limits.

And to finish,Kou`s past will be telled.

Heres the new chapter.
Is a continuation of the previous one.
Kou`s past 1
Kou`s past 2
Kou`s past Final

Note: This is what the principal heard about him from the principal of Kou`s previous high school.
Well,thats all for now.

Well a plothole to expose:
He can afford a house on his own?
And how’d he beat a bunch of bullies after getting beaten himself?

Other than those (that I can think of at the moment) this is a good overview.
Be sure something from his past comes to haunt him.

I agree whith Ved here. It does seem odd that a high school student is living on his own… Will be interested to see the outcome of that.

Keep working on it. Only way to get better is practice practice practice

Like i said im slowly telling his past and not everything,those plot holes like how he lives on his own will be telled just be patient.

I did this to distract myself a bit,and for practice.
Kou`s sheet

Maybe i do one of Dr.Libida

@Everyone who has been criticizing: I believe that constructive criticism is hugely important, so all of you who have been doing that, Good Job! But I also believe that DEstructive criticism doesn’t do much more than start flame wars, so all of you who have been doing that, Bad Job!

My personal code is to not criticize anything too harshly if it is better than what I can do. So because of this I have to say that Kou has done a fairly good job so far. Sure there is plenty of room for improvement in both the art and plot departments, but everybody’s got to start somewhere.

Thanks *Ninja,sure i will improve my art and plot.

That would be a good idea, Kou. You can never improve too much. Well…..almost never.

I started a new one.
The payback

@*Ninja
The art part takes a bit of time.

Heres the new page.
The payback 2

New page!
The payback 3
Thanks Ved for helping to create her.

I suppose that was expected.
Afterall, Kou’s memory is less than perfect. ;P

\o/

@Ved
In this I agree XD
@Kariz
Yahoo \o/

The new page.
The payback 4

Today is a double pages!

The payback 5
The payback 6

Hm, kinda fast and the text is kinda confusing.
The pictures are getting better, but make sure the story fits.

I’m hijacking this thread!
Behold, Kou’s chapter 1 remake!
Start observing now.
G.L. page 1

It got so cool Ved!!

The 2 last pages

The payback 7
The payback Final

Oh hey, you updated.
Still wished this would be a ploy for several chapters, but the single person who escaped may develope to be a bigger threat than this small time gang.
Now for several chapters of love and awkwardness. xD

@Ved
Hm,maybe that person is not a big threat,but maybe Boss will return just maybe.
Man i realy miss the coments from the other readers.

I know what you mean. I posted my own art thread, and it seems like only Ved and Beef Jerk have ever posted on it. BUT IT’S NOT ENOUGH TO GET ME DOWN!!!!!



PS You do seem to be improving, but as always, more practice would help. Also, Making the fight scene a little more “balanced” would have made the bully seem like more of a threat, but whatever.

@*Ninja
Thx *Ninja

So let’s break Suitcase’s points down:
-Edit pictures so the text comes out better
-Avoid using too much text, more image telling
-Your current abilities in art is lacking

I can certainly help with the first 2, but I’d have to say practice drawing a bit more.
I can see from Suitcase’s standpoint that your art is seriously lacking body structure, details and depth.
There isn’t much to desire other than the plot.
And from this point, the options are:
1) take Souppy’s advice and write out your stories instead
2) take some time off to practice and hone in on your abilities
3) practice with the fellow artists here and see how they draw out characters
4) try digital pictures (paint, photoshop, etc.)

Now I hate option 1. You will here a lot of people say give up, but by taking mistakes and learning from them you can prove their asses wrong. Plus your lack of english would make this much more difficult.
Option 2, I don’t think you’re ready for. You can draw, but so far it’s only for showing us readers what’s happening in the story. A waste if you have no structure to build from.
I like option 3. Watching other artists at work helps you learn how to sketch out a basic body to build from. Gabe (realism), Toasty(cartoon), and I(general anthro) have different styles, but we all know how to shape a body and make it consistant.
Option 4 is changing your approach from paper to computer. I know a good DA artist who creates all his pics from MSPaint (with just a mouse too), I think he can give you tips.

An idea is a flighty thing. Sometimes you come up with a wonderful idea, but for some reason, don’t get around to acting on it and forget it. I have personally lost too many great ideas because I was afraid that if I attempted them, I would botch them badly. I have finally overcome this fear, and I will not let you fall into the same trap. Even if your art is horrible, your spelling worse, and people despise your pathetic attempt, you MUST attempt it, if only to preserve that idea in some solid form. Then someone else could discover your idea, and use the best parts of it as inspiration for something of their own. So don’t be discouraged. Keep working at it. Not all of us were born to be great artists, but don’t let that dissuade from doing what you enjoy.

However, working on the spelling, grammar, and artistic quality would be a very good idea. Maybe you should try an entirely different style.

PS Ved’s advice is sound, listen to him before you listen to me.

Finaly after some sketch practice to find a new draw style and here it is the new chapter /o/
Yearning Desires 1

MUCH, MUCH, MUCH better! Lines are nice and smooth, shading is consistent, and the text is easily readable. HUGE improvement!!!!!!

I am proud of Kous-kous.

Good that you guys liked it \o/
Heres the new page.
Yearning Desires 2