Bittersweet Candy Bowl

Right then. Right then. It’s pretty clear a good portion of us here enjoy role playing. Keeping it up would be a grand thing.

But there’s some facts to face as well:
-The Mystery murder formula is a bit ‘old hat’ now and most of us are bored of it.
-While the SAG method, while interesting, just doesn’t work well with the sheer number of players we have. Everyone’s posting at different times making it hard to manage, and making the game very slow.
-It’s also about time that we started creating our own unique heroes. Rather then going through the same old drama’s again and again with the BCB cast.

So the question is what shall we try next? Well I have one idea that I need your opinion on here. Given the current game is paused I figured this would be a good time to bring this up.

Rather then another ‘forum role play’ I suggest we try a more long term ‘adventurers guild method’ where all the characters are part of a fantasy adventurer’s guild, with the obvious occupation.

The ‘forum thread’ will be meant more for organization and casual role plays (IE hanging out at the tavern/town). The game will have multiple people listed as ‘Game masters’ whom, at any time, can announce they’re running a quest on the thread as well as IRC/Skype. 15-30 minutes later they’ll run a game with whatever players are available. In Real time in a chat RP rather then slow forum posting. Role playing the quest out together over 2-5 hours of chatting in their own IRC room, posting the finished logs here. Occasionally running more complex quests that take multiple sessions to pull off.

Naturally if there’s too many players on at once the GM will have to limit himself to 4-6 of them. We can only handle so many people you know!

In a nut shell we’ll have a system setup where we can run a game whenever enough people are willing, in real time, without having to wait for X-Character to post. With the setting and characters prepared in advance. A quest gets sent to the Adventuring guild and our heroes take it upon themselves to complete it! As simple as that.

Possible rules for such a game can Can be found here

Sounds simple enough no? The big point I need to discuss with everyone though is the SYSTEM. The rules currently being written as if some sort of gaming system (Such as dungeons and dragons) is being used but that’s a maybe’ currently.

Should we just stick to ‘Free-form’ games and not use a system at all? With the varying skill levels here it would obviously cause some problems (particularly with those who want to be super bad-asses) but the lack of a system would certainly speed of some things

If we do use a system what should be use? I know a good few of you are familiar with them.
-D&D 2e would be easiest to run, easy for most players to understand, but the heroes would lack uniqueness completely, with all warriors being basically the same.
-D&D 3e wouldn’t be too hard to run either…and characters would be unique. but would be very broken power wise, and character creation would be hard for new players.
-D&D 4e would have unique characters with easy to handle character creation/system for new players to boot…. but would take more organization time to run on the GMs side. With ‘Maps’ being an absolute requirement in most cases.

Opinions on this would be welcome~

All I can say is that you have my sword.

Would it be at all possible for me to play a sociopathic alchemist? Because I would be totally on board with that.

How well would this work for people who have never played any form of D&D in the past?

Will we need dice?

bah, i found a way to break 3e in D&D, once you get 2,300 (or more) gp and buy a masterwork pair of gloves, and enchant them with true strike. +20 to each attack with a melee weapon as long as your wearing the gloves, and attacking with your hands. I say melee, because our DM got pissed that I (the theif) was getting +20’s to his already uber crossbow(item by the gods for quest ect.) and was killing four or five people a round.


Also im on board with D&D, 3-4 would be preforable

So, if it was going to be in a DnD manner I’d suggest 4th ed, as its the most readily available for new users and easy enough to get into.

Real question is, would this system use a board like emulator like maptools? Or how does this work for combat? for 4th ed it would have to as squares are ingrained into the rules system. It almost sounds like you want to do what TD and a few of us were doing by having the sessions through skype, maptools, and hamachi.

But yah, guess thats my thoughts or something. I’d love to play though.

Well that’s part of the debate here Miw. Someone who has had no experience with D&D shouldn’t have TOO much trouble learning the ropes of the ‘second’ and ‘fourth’ versions of the system as long as he has an skilled player to help him out. Which is what the GMs are for.

GMs that have enough common sense to say ‘what’ to roll when rolling is required, and making note of where to look for it on your character sheet for the ‘newer’ players when a game is being run are also a plus. Most newbies should have the hang of things after 2-3 sessions. These games actually tend to be great for new players getting the hang of things from my experience.

The Question is more if we want to bother with all that junk to begin with? Free-form would be great in its own way, and let everyone do what they want…no rules holding down the narrative. But combat, particularly disagreements between players could very well get messy fast. Speedy typer’s could also be a problem.

So it’s sort of a give and take thing here. It’s why I’m leaving ‘systems’ up to debate.

Also if we do it real time using skype or other voice chats would probably alienate a number of players

Woo double post. Figure this would be easier to notice for most of you.

@Rasputin
Obviously if a system is used dice would be needed. But I have a Dicebot for IRC that should function fine.

@Scarf
Yes.. something like that. Though I likely wouldn’t use the Voice chat. Focusing more on the text chat on IRC as many players don’t have Mics or would find the VC distracting. The Maptools part is however rather Iffy, particularly with the problems I’ve found some people have with it. It would add a lot of setup time which isn’t really welcoming to a game that we’re suppose run on the fly. We might be able to hand-wave some of the shifting and maneuvering without a map…allowing free flanking with shift powers and such….. but it’d take some imagination.

It’s one of the reasons I’m unsure about using 4e for this, despite its other wise newbie friendly nature.

I for one have no idea how D&D works. I’m open to the whole D&D system, but so far I’ve had fun with the free form way of doing things.

I’m with Hannibal. The interactions between characters were really what held my focus during the SAG, while the combat and fantasy setting just added some flavor to the whole thing. We probably aren’t alone here, either.

Also, there may be some creative freedom in character construction that would be lost if we made it based on a pre-existing table top system. My character would be a bit difficult to construct in D&D…

Hrm…so basically we have a flexibility vs. functionality scenario?

It seems to me that we want character freedom without the messy wait lag that happens in the forum. And I’m not so sure about clogging this down with too many OCs.

The reason we are here is for the characters and that gives us people we can grab without going into extensive detail about their backgrounds. If this really is just a few hour long games, everyone would be trying to get their back stories heard instead of actually focusing on game play. (Another “ask me about my brother” scenario)

As far as I’m concerned, the Canon characters are fine if you know how to make them interesting by molding them to your own but still keeping within continuum limits.

More or less Rapsutin.

A free-form game would allow flexibility most certainly. Creating something that matches your vision will be easy, and using your powers and skills in unique/original ways to effect the narrative taking place will also be quite easy. At its best combat will be interesting to read, and the entire thing will come together like a story.

But at the same time when problems come up… when players disagree on how things will turn out… or simply make silly unfitting designs, or game breaking actions things will just get messy. It’s also harder for the novice writers about.

It will be particularly hard for the GM as he will have no ‘Rules’ to go back on, Have to make a ruling without… possibly annoying people in the process. Lets be honest here, all of us would have a vision of our characters skills in mind, and it’s always pain when it feels like the GM’s shoving them aside. Not realizing he has no choice in the matter.

A system on the other hand would solve all these problems. Everyone’s abilities will be well defined, and flexible enough under the right GM to still do interesting things with them. If disagreements happen they can be solved with the rules, and no one is free to ‘badass’ their way through every situation. Results may be up to a die roll, but a player will still have a strong influence on it with smart tactics, and working towards a characters strengths. Not to mention the addition of unexpected risk to the game, the results no longer a certainty.

That said no system can ever allow absolute freedom. There’s going to be some restraints there, and there’s always the need for ‘new’ players to learn rules to work things out. Which can be a real pain. Not to mention the unavoidable slow down rules would bring.

I’d like to note here though TCN:I pray you don’t mean that Demon guy as ‘My character’. Even if I use a free-form people will be limited to the core races of the setting for fairness sake. We can’t have a party which consists entirely of this sort of thing…

@ Le Commie

That’s the very reason the RTF suggests against trying to make your character a ‘very special snow flake’ sort of hero. Core races only+try to make a new character for this game.

As well as leaving the ‘forum lobby’ being open for generic role playing to allow people a place to discuss such things. You’re all strong heroes, but still novice ones, your ‘story’, your ‘history’ and your ‘friends’ would be the quests you play through.

That said I’m not saying having a background with some dramatic tidbits is a BAD thing. But it’ll be encouraged to not be the constant focus either.

Still if it’s generally agreed that we should stick with the Cast Member formula who am I to disagree? If people can have fun with it and do it well why not?



Also a general thanks for those stating their views on this so far. Opinions are what I’m looking for after all~

*Glances up at the wall of text* Eeeeee~ sorry about that . I sort of got carried away didn’t I? Sorry it’s a tad late here kiddo’s. ;p. Think I’ll be clunking dead soon.

Feel free to keep discussing things. Or suggesting alternatives.

This is an important topic, walls of text are to be expected.

What I’ll be saying could just be me repeating what someone said. I dunno. I’m tired and can only see half-blurry things and am having trouble remembering stuff. Anyway, this is what I think.

I’m not sure about the D&D idea. I’ve never done it, but I guess it’s worth a try.

As for the forum play things, I like the main idea, but when people can’t post or can’t get on right away then it gets confusing. Especially when something is screwed up and then the whole thing just dies, take SAG2 for example. I’m a “Newbie” so it’s kind of hard to describe my whole take.

I like the Skype/IRC idea best. I’ve done it before, and it’s easy. You get everyone on at once in real-time, instant replies and what not. It seems easier to set up and play through.

I know my opinions have a lot of “holes” in them. But I think there is a basic point down in my views.

Pathfinder!

Also, I used to run a forum RPG with an original battle system of my own design. You guys can co-opt it if you want.

It’s described here: http://sdrpg.pbworks.com/Battle+System

Depending on your execution, you might want to do different things.

4th edition is probably the best for random combat-oriented adventures, BUUUUT it has a major problem - it requires a map. While there are VTT programs out there, its really just not that light of a system, and while throwing together random 4th edition games would be fun, it would also be fairly combat intensive due to the nature of the system. It also is rather complicated to learn, as such things go; while you can easily summarize the rules in a couple pages, building a character is relatively complicated and requires a program (which people will have to pirate if they want to make characters beyond the very lowest levels, which we may) and there are a lot of little details that can mess with people. If we wanted to do this, we could definitely do it, and I have a huge amount of system expertise with it so could help people.

3rd edition is just too complicated for something like this; it is neither rules light nor easy to build a character in, and it is nowhere near as modular. It also is incredibly slow for people who are unused to the system, and even many people who are used to the system, to play.

2nd edition is more abstract, and can be done without a battle mat. However, it suffers from the fact that there is little meat to it and magic uses all sorts of random one-off effects, while non-magic users are very limited in what they can do in combat. It is the lightest in terms of rules, however.

GURPS is far too complicated to build characters in to use for something like this, though see below.

Alternity is a very easy to learn system due to everything in it working identically (d20 + modifier die, compare to character sheet for success grade) but is designed for modern and postmodern gaming, NOT fantasy gaming. It is abstract in a lot of ways like 2nd edition, but feels less shallow. It is much better than D&D for handling non-combat stuff but, again, has an orientation in skills towards the modern and futuristic.

White Wolf is too oriented towards specific things that aren’t what we want.

Using a very light system, like the super light one you showed me once, seems like it would be a good bet for people who just want to jump in. Of course, such games are also more reliant on the players and GMs to spice things up, which is both good and bad.

I love free-form, but if whatever we are doing is often going to include some sort of combat or similar, I really don’t know how well it will work. One possibility, though, would be a pseudo-freeform system where we don’t have dice but characters DO have established sets of attributes (possibly including overall power level). Dunno how such a “system” would look, but its a possibility. It might also help keep PGing and such under control. Freeform or close to it would definitely need to involve an intro to freeform RPing, which itself is a sort of set of rules - no dictating what happens to other people’s characters without their permission is a good general rule for such games.

If we do use one of the “heavier” systems (or indeed one of the lighter systems) one possibility would be rather than everyone having their own character(s), instead there is an extant cast of characters, the people who hang out around wherever this place is, who are chosen from for any given adventure. This could allow us to use the BCB cast, an original cast, or some mixture thereof, and would have the advantage of lessening the burden on players if we were to use a system with a more intensive character-creation system like 4th edition, GURPS, or something similar - with something like 4th edition, you could “hand” people their character sheets (PDFs probably generated using the character generator) and they could roll with them pretty easily if they understood the quick play rules. It also means that system mastery will be less of an issue, as everyone will have characters built to approximately the same standards. It also circumvents some of the other potential issues, such as getting bored with a character, though it means that character development may be rather erratic due to multiple players. This works with anything though, including a more or totally free-form game, and can serve as useful guidance for players as well as to have more established interactions - if you have some guidance on who your character is, who they like and dislike, ect. then it can lead to better roleplay, especially for less experienced players.

One key I think is to make it easier on newer players, which is why I’d like a very rules light system. I am all for doing random 4th edition adventures, but I suspect most people aren’t really down for that sort of thing - if I’m wrong, I’m wrong though, and I’d be happy to be wrong as I do like writing up stuff like that.

Anyway, just some thoughts.

Incidentally, as you know Bribri, I could play or GM.

I think I’m starting to see the happy medium here. A nice -light- system that’s flexible and easy to understand will let us avoid the issues with free-form, without forcing us to suffer through the complex or restraining rules of a more complex system.

Rixx’s system looks straight forward enough for combat…. but I think it’ll need a little more flavor to fit the more narrative focus of our games.

Here’s some potential house rules I tossed together for it. Seem functional to you? I may need to add some rules to explain how ‘ritual’ casting works, as our stories tend to use them a lot. (Most often being a IQ check that either costs time or a SA use)

Edit: Durr already noticed a typo. Cha is suppose to be ‘has no effect on appearance unless you wish it to’ not ‘stats’. Dork dork.

I must say that I have a certain inclination towards the original MMG format, although I never tried the other versions so I cannot say whether I like them or not. Most is fine by me, though, but I would prefer the games to be kept in the forum. ^_^

I must say, I’m currently liking the idea of a more system-based than free-play game. Seems like it would be more orderly, wouldn’t mean too much stepping on other players toes, would be easier to manage battles, etc. More workable, I suppose.

Leaning toward the IRC option rather than forum posts, if only to keep the game going.

The set of rules we’re looking at seem pretty good.

I can safely say that whatever we decide, I’m going to want to try it.

…I get bored easily and often, alright?

How ‘bout we just try all and see which one works best with our group of people?

Trial and error. (I think… )

Indeed, the only way to be sure what works is to try it out, theory is all well and good, but you need the practice too. What applies to science can apply to this too (besides we’re playing RPs here, we’re all nerds right?)

I’ve never roleplayed with you guys, the only type is in a chat. Like Skype, or IRC. So I’d be new to most.

Aww, I was rather hoping to host an MMG, I even have one all ready to go.

I have the idea of some kind of roleplay ready. Wait, no, it needs work. Damnit. I’ve shown some people and stuff.

AAAAAGGGGH WHY’D I POST NEVERMIND

Okay then folks. Worked on making the ‘Beta-house rules’ a little more clearer they can now be found here: On Megaupload as some people were having troubles with the last file sharing site I used.

They’re actually a little longer now, but mostly due to the addition of examples to help out novice players, so most of it can be skipped over. Really… an 8 page system compared to D&D manuals which tend to hit around 200? I think we can manage.

I’ll likely be seeing about testing how well these rules work in the next few days. Gathering 3-4 willing people to run through a mini-quest before this thing officially gets put together. I think we’re likely going to have enough people interested to pull it off, and most of you who prefer free-form shouldn’t be too restricted by such a simple system.

Now I know a lot of people are unsure about this. Preferring the old formula, not liking the idea of system rules, not using Cast characters, or playing on IRC rather then the forum. Nothing wrong with it dude!

Honestly though? There’s nothing stopping from you still doing that. If I run a game like this and you still want to start an MM game go right ahead! I’m not some jerk who says my idea is the only one allowed in town.

That said…..don’t be afraid to try something new either. Just because you haven’t BEEN in a game like this before doesn’t mean you won’t enjoy it. Give the rules a read, or contact someone who’s in-charge to help you out, roll up a character and try a few games:You might enjoy it! If you don’t? No harm done, you tried, it didn’t suit your tastes, no biggy.

It’s cool man, it’s cool~

This isn’t a game you NEED to commit yourself to. The entire idea is to setup a… foundation for role playing whenever we feel like it after all. That’s the whole point. It makes it easy to plan whenever the need suits us.

Testing the system? If you’re starting a mini quest tomorrow and don’t mind someone nooby to D&D type things, you have my swords. Or maybe there won’t be one or I’m not wanted. Could be any of them.

Okay, having read the rules, I only have one question as of now: it was said that you can’t use characters from the previous SAGs since this is a new setting. This extends to OCs as well, yes?

@Hannibal.

I’ve been forgetting to change my name this entire thread haven’t I? Ah well. What can you do?

First off, you’d be more then welcome to join in the test game when it’s run. Though I’m not 100% sure WHEN I will run it just yet. Things are sort of up in the air around here you know?

As for your second question. Well it IS the same setting, same world rather, but at a different city in the same country. You see I’m trying to encourage people to come up with new designs and characters, to let them grow and be unique to this game.

That and most of the SAG heroes wouldn’t have any reason to suddenly move and join some adventuring guild when they’ve got steady work from the King back at the capital.

But.. at the same time there are a few people who still want to use ‘Cast’ Heroes. It isn’t a majority or anything but I don’t want to let those people down either.

The problem with that though.. is it makes it a lot harder for the OC’s. Cast heroes will typically be drawn to.. Duh other cast heroes. They have established personality’s and friendships so it’s easier. This.. sort of leaves OC’s fighting an uphill battle. Even in situations where the OC is well written and played it would be harder.

One thing I’m debating doing is to allow Cast-characters….but only ones who haven’t been used in the previous SAGs. Rachel, Jessica, Yashi, Blur, and others. Keeps it fresh, allows those players to be comfortable, and keeps us free of the baggage the other Cast-Heroes gathered in previous games.

Of course where’s that leave old Hannibal huh? That much I’m honestly not sure on. I really would love to see a new character out of everyone so they can grow as a group together as a fresh start….but if people REALLY want their old OCs…? I don’t see why I shouldn’t allow it. This IS suppose to be fun for you guys after all. No need to be a fussy stick in the mud.

I’m honestly too lazy to make another character unless I’m forced. So yeah. This is good.

At first, I agreed that an idea of a “guild” with small adventures would be sweet. But I thought that a D&D System would be too complicated for something this casual. But the system you’ve shown looks really good! This is just interesting enough for me to bother making a fan-character.

Bah, my old OC was not really thought out well. I plan to make a new character (unless I get REALLY lazy)

I’m barely interested in this, but thanks to this thread, i now have maptool to play D&D with, so thanks!

Query: Would it be workable to have the cast characters appear as NCP’s from time to time?

My name is my roleplay character’s name. It’s true. My real online name shall be hidden. MWAHAHAHAHA*Coughhackcough* Damnit..

Right then right then. The SAG is finally over so I can focus on my own works! Great ain’t it? Now then now I have a question for you folks.

First off I’ve already said players Will be allowed to use Cast Member characters for this Re-flavoring them into medieval-Fantasy equivalents. But for the sake of keeping things fresh they are limited to Cast Members who WEREN’T used in the previous SAGs, or simply got little to no posts when they were used. So some options include….

-Yashy, Chirpy, Blur, Jessica, Rachel, Katie, Stacy, Augustus, and Carson.

This is mostly just for who are more comfortable with this style a play. I don’t want to ruin someones fun if that’s their thing you know? That said The Majority of players should still be OC’s. Lets make this our own creation. Don’t think of it as a ‘crappy fan-character’. They’ll just be Characters period. A D&D/FF style fantasy world where you go around on adventurers hunting monsters is a BIG STEP away from Modern High-School Drama’s. Take pride in your own ideas!

Really do you consider every Cat/Dog out there a BCB fan-character now? Be realistic here

On that note. I’ve gotten some requests that this game be set 20-30 years AFTER the events of the SAG games. Allowing players to act as their characters decedents. New characters, but still with some link to the old heroes they played.

Of course if I do this I’m going to have to disallow all the OCs that were used in the previous game (not that we had many). Is that alright with you folk?

>: I


Are you guys serious. This had better not make our current D&D campaign kick the bucket. FRIDAY DAMMIT.


PS /in (dont tell me group) >.>

So, bribri, whats the deal?

Heh… I guess that means I can use Xavier, sweeeeet

The deal? Sometime within the next few days (Sunday at the latest) I’ll see about running a test game or two to ensure the system works in practice.

Assuming all goes well I’ll make an official recruitment thread sometime next week and get things organized.

That’s pretty much it really. Feels almost wrong for my post to not be wordy ;p

We’ll forgive your unwordiness this time Brichan.

Don’t let it happen again.

(And now I’m not allowed in the game)

I’d be quite happy to be involved in the test session.

And I am one of the people who asked the 20-30 years later thing. >> *coughs*

Didnt the kraken kill colm? why yes he did,GTFO

This system looks promising! I’m really not that experienced with this heavy RP stuff, but I’m more than willing to go on this test game thing! I’ve already got a character written up for it, and I should be able to whip up his stats quickly if you need me.

I gladly volunteer to join the test game, but I still wonder how must be a character profile.