Five-Eared cat!
Second, if these cats were not created by human interaction then the trait has in fact survived.
Third, if the 4 eared cat is seen as bing cool, that is the only contributing factor other then helth problems, attitude, and care requirements that matter in the new environment of the housecat.
However, my question was; If we bread a race of these cats and then tossed them into wilds and they survived, would that validate their existance?
- #51
- 10 April 2011 - 10:41 AM
The only way for a species to continue to evolve towards perfection is to continually adapt to it's surroundings. Meaning that if man interferes, the only way it could have a beneficial effect is if man's actions encouraged the exact same evolution which would have occurred if he never interfered in the first place (Which is extremely unlikely since man would not be interfering if he intended to leave things unchanged). In the absolute best case, man's interference will do nothing. Worst case it will severely cripple to species, possibly to extinction. Only bad can come out of this.
This post has been edited by matty_batty0: 10 April 2011 - 11:00 AM
- #52
- 10 April 2011 - 10:57 AM
However, I can agree to a lack of direct benefit that currently exists in the cats. It is possable that the new ear structure could give way to some weird, complex, super ear but currently there isn't one.
Also, the old type of cat should in no way be replaced.
- #53
- 10 April 2011 - 11:05 AM
This post has been edited by matty_batty0: 10 April 2011 - 11:10 AM
- #54
- 10 April 2011 - 11:09 AM
matty_batty0, on 10 April 2011 - 08:08 AM, said:
The flat face in a Persian is actually more severe than adding an ear. Why? Because it modifies the skeleton shape. Long fur is less serious, but it carries serious issues--long haired cats need to be meticulously groomed or their fur will get matted, and they can overheat really fast. While breeding cats with long hair wouldn't be an issue, deliberately modifying the skeletal structure of the animal through breeding is now very frowned upon because of the blatant health issues.
Multiple ear cats look cool, but the issue that cat breeders and cat fanciers will have is 1. there is a very high likelihood of deafness, higher than the blue eye/white fur issue, and 2. who knows what other genetic disorders will be present in said cats? The third issue they will have is it may or may not be a trait that can be consistently bred.
I'm not arguing for or against this. Honestly, as long as they're just breeding them and not playing Mad Scientist I really don't care one way or the other. My point is that the global organizations that control breeding and codify breeds will probably refuse to recognize this man's efforts, just in the way that the Munchkin cat is having difficulties being recognized (despite them having much fewer health issues than the dog equivalent, the Dachsund). You can almost guarantee this guy's problems will be much more difficult to overcome than a cat with short legs.
For reference:
http://en.wikipedia....tes_and_critics
- #55
- 10 April 2011 - 12:13 PM
Carcharocles, on 09 April 2011 - 10:15 PM, said:
The issue here is you are breeding a feature that is probably going to cause significant health problems. In the past, mutations like this have lead to breeds like the Persian, who have long fur and a flat face, but these mutations are not beneficial to the animal and often cause major problems (Persians are known for horrible dental issues, and on the dog side, the Dachsund is well known for spine problems that can and do lead to paralysis.)
Actually, the article states that these ears are completely aesthetic (they are not connected to ear canals) and also that these cats' health seems to be unaffected aside from slightly large paws on Luntya and what appears to me to be a bump on Yoda's head
matty_batty0, on 10 April 2011 - 10:34 AM, said:
You are a rebel and a traitor! Take him away!
Carcharocles, on 10 April 2011 - 12:13 PM, said:
Multiple ear cats look cool, but the issue that cat breeders and cat fanciers will have is 1. there is a very high likelihood of deafness, higher than the blue eye/white fur issue,
Why?
Carcharocles, on 10 April 2011 - 12:13 PM, said:
See above answer in reference to the original article.
Craft aids, on 10 April 2011 - 11:05 AM, said:
In fact, the inner ear and the outer ear start out (in the womb) as completely different and unrelated organs, and only later join together to create what we call 'The Ear'. This is why the new "ears" don't work and why a genetic code causing them will not lead to a full ear on its own.
Sorry for the post spam, everyone. I haven't looked into this thread in a while and wanted to add my thoughts to a bunch of existing posts.
- #56
- 10 April 2011 - 08:16 PM
Quote
For one generation. Survival of the fittest tends to talk about a much longer time. Also, it does not take into account protection that a human might give the creature out of sentimentality, curiosity, affection or just straight "I want this to happen"ness.
Also, these ears have no function apart from the aesthetic value (which even then is arguable, and how you think it looks is based on opinion - I do not like it myself). In fact, given the way normal cat ears work, I see no way that they could be anything but a liability.
- #57
- 11 April 2011 - 01:49 PM
ILB, on 11 April 2011 - 01:49 PM, said:
Quote
In fact, given the way normal cat ears work, I see no way that they could be anything but a liability.
How would they be a liability? I'm just curios, not ranting....
...
...
Not ranting!
- #58
- 11 April 2011 - 01:53 PM
They could impede movement of the functional ears, or get in the way of incoming sound...yeah?
Also, I shouldn't have missed this before.
Quote
Some traits do no really survive, they just continually mutate and die out. Similar to birth defects in humans, something like being born with an extra limb isn't always a trait which is passed on directly from genetics, more so a completely new genetic abnormality which occurs in a baby's development.
This post has been edited by matty_batty0: 11 April 2011 - 03:01 PM
- #59
- 11 April 2011 - 02:48 PM
Also, more to take care of. Consider it like having a small extra finger on each hand, but you could not move it. You would need to manoeuver more carefully with the thing there.
- #60
- 11 April 2011 - 02:56 PM
However, it has no function at the moment and is just for the debatable estetics and because the DNA told it to. Then again, why did the same mutation happen in two cats at once?
- #61
- 11 April 2011 - 04:22 PM
This post has been edited by matty_batty0: 11 April 2011 - 04:27 PM
- #62
- 11 April 2011 - 04:26 PM
matty_batty0, on 11 April 2011 - 02:48 PM, said:
It's a flap of skin. Experiment: Pull your ear lobe gently over your ear (don't press it on). Can you still hear well? Any distortion of directional placement will not hamper them since they are house cats. They don't need to hear with pinpoint accuracy since they don't need to hunt for their food or escape predators.
Craft aids, on 11 April 2011 - 04:22 PM, said:
Three cats. Remember Yoda? Also there have been documented cases of healthy four-eared cats as far back as the 50's.
- #63
- 11 April 2011 - 04:32 PM
matty_batty0, on 11 April 2011 - 04:26 PM, said:
uhhh, that's how evolution works.
Two freaks are born with gills by chance and soon we have atlantis or they die.
Usualy it is more to the form of someone being born with that freaky second arm.
but back to base, the cat ear has no function.
- #64
- 11 April 2011 - 04:50 PM
This post has been edited by matty_batty0: 11 April 2011 - 05:02 PM
- #65
- 11 April 2011 - 04:59 PM
Quote
The same reason lambs occasionally are born with five legs, and several people have been birthed with 6 fingers and toes per hand/foot. Just because a mutation is recurrent does not mean it has anything to say.
Quote
This is a bit of a silly thing to say, really. Cats hunt for mice regardless. Also, with the same line of reasoning, we might argue that it does not hamper a Dachshund to have stubby legs because they are also housepets. Granted, to our knowledge this mutation has no ill effects to that degree, but then again we know little how this will exactly affect them.
On another note: The fact that this seems to be done almost entirely for novelty purposes makes me doubt the goodwill.
Quote
All mutations are part of the evolutionary process. If an animal shows up with its nose on the back of its head, and the mutation is unsuccessful, that means no genes from that creature will be carried down for very long. Basically, a part of the gene pool has been erased because of an unfeasible mutation. It may not have as large an effect as, say, somebody who participated in the development of flight would have, but it is all part of the process.
- #66
- 11 April 2011 - 04:59 PM
matty_batty0, on 11 April 2011 - 04:59 PM, said:
Ok, then is could be argued that this occurrence is already part of the current cat genome.
This post has been edited by Craft aids: 11 April 2011 - 05:03 PM
- #67
- 11 April 2011 - 05:02 PM
- #68
- 11 April 2011 - 05:05 PM
This post has been edited by matty_batty0: 11 April 2011 - 05:09 PM
- #69
- 11 April 2011 - 05:08 PM
- #70
- 11 April 2011 - 05:08 PM
ILB, on 11 April 2011 - 04:59 PM, said:
Quote
This is a bit of a silly thing to say, really. Cats hunt for mice regardless. Also, with the same line of reasoning, we might argue that it does not hamper a Dachshund to have stubby legs because they are also housepets. Granted, to our knowledge this mutation has no ill effects to that degree, but then again we know little how this will exactly affect them.
I disagree. My point was that although they can and do hunt, they don't have to. They may enjoy hunting and try to but, let's face it, even the craziest cat lady gets slightly annoyed when she finds half a sparrow in her shoe.
ILB, on 11 April 2011 - 04:59 PM, said:
On another note: The fact that this seems to be done almost entirely for novelty purposes makes me doubt the goodwill.
I definitely agree! What this russian Mad Scientist is doing is nothing less than torture if he eventually resorts to inbreeding in order to keep the gene (and he will, seeing as there are only 3 known cases of this alive) because this will cause horrible disfigurements like what happened with the aforementioned Persian cats or the Daschund dogs.
I enjoyed hearing of this as a novelty, but what he will probably do is just cruel.
I say let it exist, but don't force it.
This post has been edited by CatTrooper: 11 April 2011 - 05:27 PM
- #71
- 11 April 2011 - 05:26 PM
- #72
- 11 April 2011 - 05:29 PM
Craft aids, on 11 April 2011 - 05:29 PM, said:
The ability to destroy a planet is insignificant next to the power of the force.
- #73
- 11 April 2011 - 06:06 PM
Quote
Well, fair enough. I can grant you that.
- #74
- 11 April 2011 - 08:45 PM
-
Just a small note... Siamese cats literally evolved (without human intervention) to rely on human beings. They developed extremely friendly natures, but their blue eyes have poor eyesight, and their ears are none too good. I'm speaking of the Traditional Siamese by the by. I reckon four eared-cats are useless, but breeds are getting more and more inbred and moggies are appearing everywhere...
So, I'm all for developing a new breed, if only to remind people to continue making new and functional breeds and stuff. Meh, I'm sick an incoherent. This is an interesting discussion. It's worth breeding the kitties just to find out if health issues /do/ arise.
- #75
- 11 April 2011 - 10:15 PM
Except for Yoda, they are all pretty freaky
The yoda cat is freaky but still cute, at least.
- #76
- 11 April 2011 - 10:50 PM
- #77
- 12 April 2011 - 01:30 AM
Migrant, on 11 April 2011 - 10:50 PM, said:
Except for Yoda, they are all pretty freaky
The yoda cat is freaky but still cute, at least.
I disagree! I quite like Luntya. Look at the markings around her eyes. She's beautiful!
matty_batty0, on 12 April 2011 - 01:30 AM, said:
True. Especially where I live there is sadly a very large number of stray cats, but stray cats live mostly on garbage and scraps, not by hunting.
Feral cats are a different matter, but fully domesticated cats cannot survive to become feral...
- #78
- 13 April 2011 - 05:38 AM
- #79
- 13 April 2011 - 06:49 AM
- #80
- 13 April 2011 - 01:57 PM
Migrant, on 13 April 2011 - 06:49 AM, said:

I beg to differ.
- #81
- 13 April 2011 - 05:12 PM
Migrant, on 13 April 2011 - 06:49 AM, said:
A: My sister's cat was a stray... actually never mind that's an argument in your favor
Okay then how about
B: My college sets food out to attract local stray cats and then have them deal with any vermin we might get.
- #82
- 13 April 2011 - 08:19 PM
MattyBatty said:
As a curiosity, three legged amputee cats have a better chance of being adopted from a cattery then their counterpart healthy cats, because the percentage niche market people who take pitty on them is larger than the percentage of cats that need to be amputated.
Miwaturu and cattrooper: THOSE ARE LIES!!! STRAY CATS ARE EVIL AND ALL THOSE WHO AID THEM WILL SURELY BE DESTINED TO AN ETERNITY OF PUNISHMENT IN HELL!
- #83
- 13 April 2011 - 08:59 PM
- #84
- 14 April 2011 - 02:27 AM
Makes you think...These cats have no rights at all! They do not even get to choose there own evolutionary path
This post has been edited by matty_batty0: 14 April 2011 - 02:39 AM
- #85
- 14 April 2011 - 02:37 AM
Migrant, on 13 April 2011 - 08:59 PM, said:
Cows and sheep did exist before humans. You probably mean what they evolved into, aka the too-much-milk-eat-me cows and I'm-too-sexy-for-my-wool sheep/goats.
Migrant, on 13 April 2011 - 08:59 PM, said:
Birds are direct descendants of flying dinosaurs, more so than any reptile. Not all creatures develop flying only when their food flies, some are the other way around, as in flying to escape predators.
Migrant, on 13 April 2011 - 08:59 PM, said:
matty_batty0, on 14 April 2011 - 02:37 AM, said:
Do we choose our own evolutionary path? Does any other animal? Aside from that I get your point.
- #86
- 14 April 2011 - 05:36 AM
- #87
- 14 April 2011 - 02:25 PM
CatTrooper, on 14 April 2011 - 05:36 AM, said:
Sometimes we choose it, sometimes it chooses us.
- #88
- 14 April 2011 - 04:31 PM
CatTrooper, on 14 April 2011 - 05:36 AM, said:
CatTrooper, on 14 April 2011 - 05:36 AM, said:
Also, birds developed flight after having branched from dinosaurs. Proto-reptiles like the pterodactyl, not only were not considered dinosaurs, but are also not direct ancestors of birds. One of the first (if not THE first) bird-like fossil in record is of the Archaeopteryx - a flightless bird.
ILB, on 14 April 2011 - 02:25 PM, said:
This post has been edited by Migrant: 15 April 2011 - 03:50 AM
- #89
- 15 April 2011 - 03:48 AM
Stray cats: poor, unlucky bastards or spawn of the devil?
- Option 1: Stray cats compactuate with the devil at birth and will bring about the rise of the anti-christ if we allow them.
- Option 2: Stray cats aren't guilty, as they must serve devil's every whim only because of an ancient, forgotten deal made by greedy individuals millenia ago.
- Option 3: Stay cats have no real allegiance to the devil, and are instead only serving him because it serves their own dark, evil purposes.
- #90
- 15 April 2011 - 03:58 AM
- #91
- 15 April 2011 - 04:51 AM
Jerk, on 15 April 2011 - 04:51 AM, said:
And an addition to my previous post.
mattybatty said:
This post has been edited by Migrant: 15 April 2011 - 05:10 AM
- #92
- 15 April 2011 - 05:03 AM
- #93
- 15 April 2011 - 05:07 AM
This post has been edited by Migrant: 15 April 2011 - 05:17 AM
- #94
- 15 April 2011 - 05:15 AM
To bad you already realated it to rats.
Rats go everywhere we go and in greater numbers.
This post has been edited by Craft aids: 15 April 2011 - 05:44 AM
- #95
- 15 April 2011 - 05:19 AM
This post has been edited by Migrant: 15 April 2011 - 05:30 AM
- #96
- 15 April 2011 - 05:30 AM
That said, we are also very good at, uhm, controlling said populations. Rats would have been very much populous across the globe if not for us.
Still, I suppose we also helped them spread. By feeding them, for instance.
Quote
Aww. I did not mean it like that. ^_^
- #97
- 15 April 2011 - 12:47 PM
Craft aids, on 15 April 2011 - 05:07 AM, said:
Speak for yourself!
ILB, on 15 April 2011 - 12:47 PM, said:
They also stowed away on ships in order to spread to new continents along with us, bringing diseases with them (us).
Migrant, my stray cat overlords have told me to kill you. Don't open your mail.
- #98
- 17 April 2011 - 08:33 AM
CatTrooper, on 17 April 2011 - 08:33 AM, said:
So you don't last very long, huh? That's not really something to be proud of, you know?
- #99
- 17 April 2011 - 10:51 AM
- #100
- 17 April 2011 - 10:53 AM






