This topic is lockedAt the same time though, a question would never be set out like this one. You can not ever find a right answer if you are given a wrong question.
This post has been edited by matty_batty0: 10 April 2011 - 04:13 PM
Math Problem
- matty_batty0
- Member
I am staying with 288 because if I saw a question like this and had to make a choice then that is the answer I get from using the standard convention I have always been taught, same convention Esalaka used.
At the same time though, a question would never be set out like this one. You can not ever find a right answer if you are given a wrong question.
At the same time though, a question would never be set out like this one. You can not ever find a right answer if you are given a wrong question.
- #51
- 10 April 2011 - 07:46 AM
- Craft aids
- That doesn't sound like a rape. That sounds like suprise sex
Banned 
If you want someone to show their work on how to get that answer, I already did that right along side the other answer with a worded explanation.
- #53
- 10 April 2011 - 09:11 AM
- Quaddy
- Member
"Hey! What's black and white and red all over?"
"A newspaper?"
"Wrong! a zebra falling into a black hole"
"..."
"Hey! What's black and white and red all over?"
"A zebra falling into a black hole? You just told me this..."
"Wrong! It's a newspaper, silly! Jeez, I though everyone had heard this one!"
"A newspaper?"
"Wrong! a zebra falling into a black hole"
"..."
"Hey! What's black and white and red all over?"
"A zebra falling into a black hole? You just told me this..."
"Wrong! It's a newspaper, silly! Jeez, I though everyone had heard this one!"
- #57
- 10 April 2011 - 04:09 PM
- The Nturtanyr
- Member
I don't understand why people have trouble understanding how math is written. It's just like grammar, there is a set way that is accepted and should be accepted. There is a correct way and the wrong way. Opinion has no place in how it is written.
- #58
- 10 April 2011 - 06:36 PM
- Craft aids
- That doesn't sound like a rape. That sounds like suprise sex
Banned
@quaddy
Disapoint.
Unles of corse that is actualy commentary as to the nature of science, math and(equaly) the bible.
Disapoint.
Unles of corse that is actualy commentary as to the nature of science, math and(equaly) the bible.
This post has been edited by Craft aids: 10 April 2011 - 07:21 PM
- #59
- 10 April 2011 - 07:21 PM
The Nturtanyr, on 10 April 2011 - 06:36 PM, said:
I don't understand why people have trouble understanding how math is written. It's just like grammar, there is a set way that is accepted and should be accepted. There is a correct way and the wrong way. Opinion has no place in how it is written.
You do realize people still have a very hard time with grammar right?
- #60
- 10 April 2011 - 07:37 PM
The Nturtanyr, on 10 April 2011 - 06:36 PM, said:
I don't understand why people have trouble understanding how math is written. It's just like grammar, there is a set way that is accepted and should be accepted. There is a correct way and the wrong way. Opinion has no place in how it is written.
The problem is that about 50% of the highschool students here report being taught it one way, and 50% the other.
I think that the TRULY correct thing to do would be to use brackets to ensure that you aren't misunderstood when you're asking the question. No university would EVER accept a statement like what kaxbe wrote in a paper, it's bad typesetting.
- #63
- 11 April 2011 - 01:59 AM
- Kaxbe
- Member
Starwatcher, on 11 April 2011 - 01:59 AM, said:
The Nturtanyr, on 10 April 2011 - 06:36 PM, said:
I don't understand why people have trouble understanding how math is written. It's just like grammar, there is a set way that is accepted and should be accepted. There is a correct way and the wrong way. Opinion has no place in how it is written.
The problem is that about 50% of the highschool students here report being taught it one way, and 50% the other.
I think that the TRULY correct thing to do would be to use brackets to ensure that you aren't misunderstood when you're asking the question. No university would EVER accept a statement like what kaxbe wrote in a paper, it's bad typesetting.
Ha. Hahahaha. Hahahahahahahahahahahaha. My teachers actually prefer sideways with minimal bracket use. And this was at a major university, not at the community uni I'm at now.
- #64
- 11 April 2011 - 02:22 AM
Give me a peer-reviewed math journal that typesets like we don't have LaTeX and I might believe you.
- #65
- 11 April 2011 - 02:52 AM
- the wii anonymous
- Member
i cant believe anyone would get confused by this, ITS 2! *feels random smartness.* go being smart
This post has been edited by the wii anonymous: 11 April 2011 - 05:09 AM
- #66
- 11 April 2011 - 05:09 AM
I initially thought the answer was 2 as well. But it's not. Why? Maybe if we look at what we need to do step by step:
Okay, so first we need to take care of what's in the brackets. And only what's within the brackets.
This is just another way of writing:
Now, multiplication and division both have the same level of precedence. We tackle it from left to right.
And the answer is 288.
48÷2(9+3)
Okay, so first we need to take care of what's in the brackets. And only what's within the brackets.
48÷2(12)
This is just another way of writing:
48÷2×12
Now, multiplication and division both have the same level of precedence. We tackle it from left to right.
24×12
And the answer is 288.
- #67
- 11 April 2011 - 05:33 AM
- the wii anonymous
- Member
wacko, on 11 April 2011 - 05:33 AM, said:
I initially thought the answer was 2 as well. But it's not. Why? Maybe if we look at what we need to do step by step:
Okay, so first we need to take care of what's in the brackets. And only what's within the brackets.
This is just another way of writing:
Now, multiplication and division both have the same level of precedence. We tackle it from left to right.
And the answer is 288.
48÷2(9+3)
Okay, so first we need to take care of what's in the brackets. And only what's within the brackets.
48÷2(12)
This is just another way of writing:
48÷2×12
Now, multiplication and division both have the same level of precedence. We tackle it from left to right.
24×12
And the answer is 288.
you distripute the 2 into the brackets first
48/2(9+3)
turns into
48/(18+6)
brackets as usual. (note this is acording to waht ive learned in algebra so far so you may be using rules of more advanced math.)
48/24
and we get 2
2
This post has been edited by the wii anonymous: 11 April 2011 - 05:37 AM
- #68
- 11 April 2011 - 05:37 AM
- Craft aids
- That doesn't sound like a rape. That sounds like suprise sex
Banned
Starwatcher, on 11 April 2011 - 01:59 AM, said:
The problem is that about 50% of the highschool students here report being taught it one way, and 50% the other.
This.
This This This This This This This This This This This This This This This This This This This This This This This This This.
I covered it earlyer. I have actualy been taught both ways. Usualy things are worded better then this so it is not a problem but bothe the "left to right during operations of equle presidence" method and the "spesific system of presidence" method were introdused to me in school..
- #70
- 11 April 2011 - 05:46 AM
- The Nturtanyr
- Member
I've been taught both that an apple weighs ten grams and that it doesn't.
Doesn't mean they both are right.
Doesn't mean they both are right.
- #71
- 11 April 2011 - 05:52 AM
- Craft aids
- That doesn't sound like a rape. That sounds like suprise sex
Banned
Being an issue of gramer, there is no way to test this. The grammer would work as long as you executed it correctly. This is an issue of standardisation. There is no way to mesure that exept to make everyone agree on it.
- #72
- 11 April 2011 - 05:56 AM
- the wii anonymous
- Member
Kaxbe, on 11 April 2011 - 05:56 AM, said:
Did you know that grammar has rules?
yes, and im learning them in school at this time. there so damn annoying!
- #74
- 11 April 2011 - 06:00 AM
- Craft aids
- That doesn't sound like a rape. That sounds like suprise sex
Banned
Yes, and those rules exist for the sake of keeping everyones structure identical and functional.
There would be no way to test the grammer of a language exept for finding information from the time the grammer was set or copys of said information.
With grammer, it is because it is. It does not need a bigger reason exept simplisity.
There would be no way to test the grammer of a language exept for finding information from the time the grammer was set or copys of said information.
With grammer, it is because it is. It does not need a bigger reason exept simplisity.
- #75
- 11 April 2011 - 06:00 AM
- the wii anonymous
- Member
Kaxbe, on 11 April 2011 - 06:02 AM, said:
Did you know that math has rules
this is going somewhere and i dont like it.
*retreats to recess.*
This post has been edited by the wii anonymous: 11 April 2011 - 06:08 AM
- #77
- 11 April 2011 - 06:03 AM
- Craft aids
- That doesn't sound like a rape. That sounds like suprise sex
Banned
Math is a language.
I already coverd those.
One more thing about grammer, as long as two standardisations or more exist, there is not a correct answer that everyone will understand and as such, it it the grammer that is flawd.
I already coverd those.
One more thing about grammer, as long as two standardisations or more exist, there is not a correct answer that everyone will understand and as such, it it the grammer that is flawd.
This post has been edited by Craft aids: 11 April 2011 - 06:06 AM
- #78
- 11 April 2011 - 06:03 AM
Can't anyone see that the answer is obviously 42? 
- #79
- 11 April 2011 - 06:08 AM
- Craft aids
- That doesn't sound like a rape. That sounds like suprise sex
Banned
Yay referance. Let me just toss some pocket internets your way.
here you go, +1 internets.
Don't spend it all in one place.
here you go, +1 internets.
Don't spend it all in one place.
- #80
- 11 April 2011 - 06:09 AM
- Kaxbe
- Member
Did you know that this is basic math? Did you know that this problem appeared in a grade-school level maths book? Did you notice how the universal horizontal sign for simple division is used instead of a slash? That alone should make this problem easier. But no. It seems like a whole lot of you decided to interpret that "÷" as a slash, fucking up the "grammar" of the problem. This is BASIC math. There is only one answer. Yes the horizontal division sign and the slash represent the same thing, but what they communicate is different. There is a reason why fractions are not taught as division in most grade-level courses.
- #81
- 11 April 2011 - 06:13 AM
- Craft aids
- That doesn't sound like a rape. That sounds like suprise sex
Banned
See, this is why the grammer is invalid. I was never told there was the slightest difference between
1
2
1/2
and 1÷2
Grammer, being standerdisation, is not being taught in a standard manner.
I still do not know which of the two answers is right.
Do multiplication and devision have the same presidence or don't they?
And if you answer, you were taught that answer by a school just like I was taught to do it two ways by a school system when only one can be correct.
1
2
1/2
and 1÷2
Grammer, being standerdisation, is not being taught in a standard manner.
I still do not know which of the two answers is right.
Do multiplication and devision have the same presidence or don't they?
And if you answer, you were taught that answer by a school just like I was taught to do it two ways by a school system when only one can be correct.
This post has been edited by Craft aids: 11 April 2011 - 06:23 AM
- #82
- 11 April 2011 - 06:19 AM
In all seriousness, I was always taught that problems like these have multiple answers that are actually correct. So neither are wrong.
This post has been edited by Qsandas: 11 April 2011 - 06:29 AM
- #83
- 11 April 2011 - 06:27 AM
- Kaxbe
- Member
TIME TO SOLVE THE PROBLEM WITH THE PROBLEM SOLVERZ
48÷2(9+3)
Oh my, that looks like a bit of a mess! Let's separate the terms a little bit!
48÷2*(9+3)
There! That's much better! Now we can clearly read the problem from left to right! This was so easy since the 2 and the (9+3) were not lumped together in a single bracket! Now let's solve left to right!
48÷2*(12)
48÷2*12
First, let's clean up those nasty brackets!
24*12
Solving from left to right...
288
WOW. LOOK AT THAT.
Honestly, I was never taught any other way. I was taught that when a problem is written horizontally, to never assume that terms are grouped together unless EXPLICITLY shown to do so via brackets. Otherwise, just solve left to right, and even then things inside brackets are solved left to right. It's BASIC MATH. Fuck this shit, I'm an arts major. Obviously, I have no idea what I'm talking about. Fuck you.
48÷2(9+3)
Oh my, that looks like a bit of a mess! Let's separate the terms a little bit!
48÷2*(9+3)
There! That's much better! Now we can clearly read the problem from left to right! This was so easy since the 2 and the (9+3) were not lumped together in a single bracket! Now let's solve left to right!
48÷2*(12)
48÷2*12
First, let's clean up those nasty brackets!
24*12
Solving from left to right...
288
WOW. LOOK AT THAT.
Honestly, I was never taught any other way. I was taught that when a problem is written horizontally, to never assume that terms are grouped together unless EXPLICITLY shown to do so via brackets. Otherwise, just solve left to right, and even then things inside brackets are solved left to right. It's BASIC MATH. Fuck this shit, I'm an arts major. Obviously, I have no idea what I'm talking about. Fuck you.
- #84
- 11 April 2011 - 06:29 AM
- Craft aids
- That doesn't sound like a rape. That sounds like suprise sex
Banned
Craft aids, on 10 April 2011 - 04:49 AM, said:
48÷2(9+3)
Without a doubt, the parenthesis make the first move clear.
48÷2*12
At this point, one must choose between the order of operations that goes based on symbols only,( () then * then ÷ then + then - ) and the system that goes based on groupings with a secondary system of right to left( () then * and ÷ then + and -). In the first system we always multiply before we divide and in the second system we chose the right most of multipliers and dividers.
48÷24 or 24*12
2 or 288
Without a doubt, the parenthesis make the first move clear.
48÷2*12
At this point, one must choose between the order of operations that goes based on symbols only,( () then * then ÷ then + then - ) and the system that goes based on groupings with a secondary system of right to left( () then * and ÷ then + and -). In the first system we always multiply before we divide and in the second system we chose the right most of multipliers and dividers.
48÷24 or 24*12
2 or 288
See, I got the same answer.
The point of contention is not how to reach the answer but which answer to reach.
And that is based on one spesific moment in the problem.
here
48÷2*12
Right here.
I have no way of proving which one of the syntaxes is correct and you have no way to show me because after we reach the answer, 2 and 288 have no extra sygnificance that would invalidate either one and neither problem had anything to invalidat either of them.
It's taking someones word for it all the way around.
- #85
- 11 April 2011 - 06:40 AM
- Blazer
- Member
The basic mathematical rules are these:
1. Calculations must be done from left to right.
2. Calculations in brackets (parenthesis) are done first. When you have more than one set of brackets, do the inner brackets first.
3. Exponents (or radicals) must be done next.
4. Multiply and divide in the order the operations occur.
5. Add and subtract in the order the operations occur.
________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
The correct answer would be 2... Why ? Allow me to show you how and why.
48 ÷ 2 x (9+3)= ?
48 ÷ 2 x (12)
There is still a bracket and you can't remove it unless you multiply it with the number before the bracket. Which is in this case 2
48 ÷ 24 = 2, Wolla everything done and correct.
Why is it like that ? Well its pretty much BECAUSE OF THE ÷ sign between 48 and rest of the operation, making the WHOLE TASK
from the very beginning look like this :
1. Calculations must be done from left to right.
2. Calculations in brackets (parenthesis) are done first. When you have more than one set of brackets, do the inner brackets first.
3. Exponents (or radicals) must be done next.
4. Multiply and divide in the order the operations occur.
5. Add and subtract in the order the operations occur.
________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
The correct answer would be 2... Why ? Allow me to show you how and why.
48 ÷ 2 x (9+3)= ?
48 ÷ 2 x (12)
There is still a bracket and you can't remove it unless you multiply it with the number before the bracket. Which is in this case 2
48 ÷ 24 = 2, Wolla everything done and correct.
Why is it like that ? Well its pretty much BECAUSE OF THE ÷ sign between 48 and rest of the operation, making the WHOLE TASK
from the very beginning look like this :
This post has been edited by Blazer: 11 April 2011 - 02:02 PM
- #86
- 11 April 2011 - 01:41 PM
LaTeX is where it is at! I have to write my Physic Lab Journals in with it.
But really, in higher level mathematics everything will be in some type of brackets so that nothing is left to assumption.
You'll just simplify the terms with in bracket, and brackets within other brackets. Such as: ([a(b^{c-d}z)]/[(log(a-b)_{v})(b+t)])+d which is really (term/ term) + d which really would be (term)+d.
I read the given problem as 48/(2(9+3)) since the term (48/2) was not specified.
I agree with Blazer, the wii anonymous, and others on the first page.
The answer is 2.
ILB, yeah...
It really depends on how you read it, but it really shouldn't be a problem if it was fully separated into components. Ideally then everyone should be able to read it the same then.
If we keep saying the same thing that means something has to be really right or wrong
But really, in higher level mathematics everything will be in some type of brackets so that nothing is left to assumption.
You'll just simplify the terms with in bracket, and brackets within other brackets. Such as: ([a(b^{c-d}z)]/[(log(a-b)_{v})(b+t)])+d which is really (term/ term) + d which really would be (term)+d.
I read the given problem as 48/(2(9+3)) since the term (48/2) was not specified.
I agree with Blazer, the wii anonymous, and others on the first page.
The answer is 2.
ILB, yeah...
It really depends on how you read it, but it really shouldn't be a problem if it was fully separated into components. Ideally then everyone should be able to read it the same then.
If we keep saying the same thing that means something has to be really right or wrong
This post has been edited by Vanvoltra: 11 April 2011 - 02:24 PM
- #89
- 11 April 2011 - 02:22 PM
- Blazer
- Member
Its a trick task used in many, MANY, IQ tests that are for High school students, believe it or not almost half of the school failed on that trick question, excluding me even though I barely pass Math at school 
This post has been edited by Blazer: 11 April 2011 - 02:42 PM
- #90
- 11 April 2011 - 02:42 PM
- matty_batty0
- Member
288 is the correct answer though 
Besides, an IQ test is meant to measure your intelligence, not the amount of lies you have been told.
Besides, an IQ test is meant to measure your intelligence, not the amount of lies you have been told.
- #93
- 11 April 2011 - 03:08 PM
- Blazer
- Member
*facepalm*
288 is NOT the correct answer no matter how you look at it, if the answer is 288 then that means you are missing basic Math knowledge about functions and operations
And IQ test are meant to measure your skill at using one or more capacities of the mind in small amount of time.
288 is NOT the correct answer no matter how you look at it, if the answer is 288 then that means you are missing basic Math knowledge about functions and operations
And IQ test are meant to measure your skill at using one or more capacities of the mind in small amount of time.
This post has been edited by Blazer: 11 April 2011 - 03:12 PM
- #94
- 11 April 2011 - 03:12 PM
- esalaka
- Banned
matty_batty0, on 11 April 2011 - 03:08 PM, said:
288 is the correct answer though
Besides, an IQ test is meant to measure your intelligence, not the amount of lies you have been told.
Besides, an IQ test is meant to measure your intelligence, not the amount of lies you have been told.
Mathematics is a purely 'man-made' for of science, as in its rules have been defined by man instead of nature.
(Well, algebra is, anyway, and arithmetics is just algebra with constants)
Edit: Hence, it can't be considered 'lies' when it's defined to be true. A≠¬A
This post has been edited by esalaka: 11 April 2011 - 03:24 PM
- #95
- 11 April 2011 - 03:23 PM
- Valumior
- Member
I google'd it just for the hell of it. This is what it thinks:
(48 / 2) * (9 + 3) = 288
This equation is definitely missing a bracket. Ever since I started coding I double check brackets.
^Only way to properly write a division^
(48 / 2) * (9 + 3) = 288
This equation is definitely missing a bracket. Ever since I started coding I double check brackets.
Blazer, on 11 April 2011 - 01:41 PM, said:
^Only way to properly write a division^
- #96
- 11 April 2011 - 03:26 PM
- JHawkNH
- Member
Blazer, on 11 April 2011 - 01:41 PM, said:
The basic mathematical rules are these:
1. Calculations must be done from left to right.
2. Calculations in brackets (parenthesis) are done first. When you have more than one set of brackets, do the inner brackets first.
3. Exponents (or radicals) must be done next.
4. Multiply and divide in the order the operations occur.
5. Add and subtract in the order the operations occur.
________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
The correct answer would be 2... Why ? Allow me to show you how and why.
48 ÷ 2 x (9+3)= ?
48 ÷ 2 x (12)
There is still a bracket and you can't remove it unless you multiply it with the number before the bracket. Which is in this case 2
48 ÷ 24 = 2, Wolla everything done and correct.
Why is it like that ? Well its pretty much BECAUSE OF THE ÷ sign between 48 and rest of the operation, making the WHOLE TASK
from the very beginning look like this :
1. Calculations must be done from left to right.
2. Calculations in brackets (parenthesis) are done first. When you have more than one set of brackets, do the inner brackets first.
3. Exponents (or radicals) must be done next.
4. Multiply and divide in the order the operations occur.
5. Add and subtract in the order the operations occur.
________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
The correct answer would be 2... Why ? Allow me to show you how and why.
48 ÷ 2 x (9+3)= ?
48 ÷ 2 x (12)
There is still a bracket and you can't remove it unless you multiply it with the number before the bracket. Which is in this case 2
48 ÷ 24 = 2, Wolla everything done and correct.
Why is it like that ? Well its pretty much BECAUSE OF THE ÷ sign between 48 and rest of the operation, making the WHOLE TASK
from the very beginning look like this :
I am sorry Blazer but you are wrong. The answer is 288.
Your statment "There is still a bracket and you can't remove it unless you multiply it with the number before the bracket. Which is in this case 2" ius incorrect. Brackets are removed once there are no more operations within the bracket to process.
Rule number 2 confirms this..
"2. Calculations in brackets (parenthesis) are done first. When you have more than one set of brackets, do the inner brackets first."
No where in any of the rules does it state that something must be done to a bracket to remove the bracket. The only thing that must occur is the rule that I posted already.
- #97
- 11 April 2011 - 03:27 PM
- matty_batty0
- Member
@ Blazer
Yes, but this case does not require any skill of the mind (at least minimal skill anyway). It is completely reliant on how someone taught you to solve this problem, if they lied to you then that is no fault of your own, it doesn't say anything about your intelect. Besides, what makes you think you are so right? Looking at your equation above it could be said that you multiplied before you divided, even though the division was on the left side.
Yes, but this case does not require any skill of the mind (at least minimal skill anyway). It is completely reliant on how someone taught you to solve this problem, if they lied to you then that is no fault of your own, it doesn't say anything about your intelect. Besides, what makes you think you are so right? Looking at your equation above it could be said that you multiplied before you divided, even though the division was on the left side.
This post has been edited by matty_batty0: 11 April 2011 - 03:31 PM
- #98
- 11 April 2011 - 03:30 PM
- Blazer
- Member
No I'm not wrong because brackets are done first, that also includes in how to actually remove the bracket in the first place.
And I also know my statement is correct because of divisions, and this problem is a division by ITSELF.
48 ÷ 2 (9+3) =
And I also know my statement is correct because of divisions, and this problem is a division by ITSELF.
48 ÷ 2 (9+3) =
This post has been edited by Blazer: 11 April 2011 - 03:39 PM
- #99
- 11 April 2011 - 03:37 PM
- matty_batty0
- Member
What JHawk said, "brackets first" means you solve what is in the brackets, not everything which has anything to do with a bracketed number, If your logic held then placing brackets around the 48 would completely reshape the formula, when really it should do nothing.
This post has been edited by matty_batty0: 11 April 2011 - 03:44 PM
- #100
- 11 April 2011 - 03:41 PM