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My personal stance on abortion is mostly pro-life. As Starwatcher said, it doesn't really make sense to have a policy that is all on one side or the other. Right or wrong, I just believe that barring a few exceptions, the mother (and father) should bear the consequences of their romantic escapades. And to have a pro-choice policy reinforces irresponsibility. With that being said, there should be some notable caveats to the pro-life policy. The big one being Rape. If a woman is fertilized against her will, it should be up to her whether or not she wants to bear such an emotional and physical challenge. The other exceptions should consider the health of the mother, as Taeshi eluded to in her link. If the pregnancy is going to endanger the woman, she should not have to go through with it. Also, if the baby is doomed to have a horrible prognosis due to some severe congenital defect, the mother should have that choice as well to end the misery before it unfolds.

I think a policy that would leave a bad taste in my mouth is to have pro-choice for any possible instance AND having medical insurance actually cover those abortions. Cuz that's exactly where I would want our tax dollars going into, a nympho girl who can't keep her legs closed. But that's just me. What do I know...

"The mother (and father) should bear the consequences of their romantic escapades."

So you want to punish a woman for making an error by ruining her life because she is most-likely not capable or ready to have a child, further polluting the world with another unloved, hungry mistake to feed.

Good plan! Forcing the woman to keep the baby is totally a good punishment!! I mean, it's really great the baby is treated as a slap on the wrist or a detention or something!!

It does not reinforce irresponsibility. It is far more irresponsible to be a 16 year old to have a baby and be forced to keep it.

"Cuz that's exactly where I would want our tax dollars going into, a nympho girl who can't keep her legs closed. But that's just me. What do I know... "


Abortion is not a form of contraception similar to the pill or the condom you absolute idiot. It's logic like this that makes me question humanity and makes me remember why there's a lot of countries that are backwards and not allowing pro-choice. Do you think abortion is a lah-dee-dah "vacuum it up doc and i'm ready to go" procedure? It's a fucking pain. IT'S NOT A POSITIVE THING TO HAPPEN TO YOU. It's a terrible choice and predicament to be put in. A lot of the time people leave the abortion clinic feeling miserable having done it, and have felt pain in the procedure. It's incomparable, and you know nothing.

You have absolutely no right for entitlement about what a stranger who isn't going to affect your LIFE, what she chooses to do with her body.

And hey, if you're so freaken worried about tax dollars, GUESS WHAT. A new baby, a new mouth to feed, most likely being raised in a shitty environment with a mother that will probably get aid from the government because she lacks the time to get a job because she has to take care of something she coulda prevented. THERE'S YOUR TAX DOLLARS FOR YA.

Also I'd like to say that having put a girl through getting an abortion I honestly would rather wear twelve condoms than do it again.

Purin, on 05 September 2011 - 09:15 PM, said:

Here are the people who think the same:

SushiJaguar, on 05 September 2011 - 09:45 PM, said:

Yeah my bro still has nightmares about his unborn baby killing him or something after his ex had to get an abortion. Doesn't sound like a happy experience.

Taeshi, on 05 September 2011 - 07:49 PM, said:

Don't mistake me Taeshi. Yes, I believe that abortion is bad. But I will never tell a woman what she can or she can't do to her boy. I believe she is free to do whatever she wants, but I will not approve an abortion as a resolution for a mistake.

It is different when we talk of abortion because the woman was raped -wich I can understand she wants to abbort- or an abortion for medical reasons -risks for the life of the mother, for example-.

On the other hand, I can't agree with abortion because the woman didn't use a condom in a drunken night. I'm sorry miss, but you should have used it. Is it the fault of the baby? Even if she is pregnant for some semaines, this "bunch of cells" will, eventually, became a person. So, for my ethics I believe that it is horrible to prevent that little creature to develop.

If you don't want the baby, hey you can always donate him in adoption. And please, don't tell me about what life will he have in an orphanage. There are kids that had a nice childhood in an orphanage, and kids who had a shitty childhood in a "complete" familly.

Only my thoughs. If we start debating maybe we should open a new thread

The funny thing is that I'm so incredibly immensely pro-choice, but do you see me thinking "hurpadurp i'm gonna be having me so many abortions!!!" if abortion was allowed in Sydney for example?

HELL NO.

BECAUSE IT'S NOT A GOOD THING. As Sushi even personally cited, IT'S NOT A WALK IN THE PARK.

But the fact is, if something WERE to happen to me, at least that would be a CHOICE. And at least I know there are those out there who don't HAVE to take the option of abortion, but it's THERE. Abortion becoming an option does not mean women are going to just start aborting all over the place, christ.

Quote

It won't become a person if it's aborted

A baby should be brought into the world if it's WANTED. If the person is happy and willing to care for it, if the person is willing to be a great mother. You're using pregnancy as a way to punish a person for a mistake, when pregnancy should be a good thing.

Right now there are grey areas where one could argue either way, but if we solve the problem at the source (unwanted pregnancies) then everyone wins!

I think everyone's focus should be on promoting safe sex and good choices. If every child that is formed is the result of conscious, informed decision by both parents then nearly all will have a caretakers and homes and thus abortion doesn't even need to enter the picture.

Volgrand, on 05 September 2011 - 09:51 PM, said:

This is ridiculous, not only do you imply that contraception is entirely the responsibility of the woman, but you also talk about how the 'bunch of cells' will become a person.

Yes it will, but many weeks hence. Why should someone be punish for 20 years for a one night mistake. I find it amusing that you seem to believe that the diminished responsibility of being drunk is practically a good enough reason for some one to have to go through with an unwanted pregnancy.

hey you know what's funny

having sex with a drunk person is rape <3

ergo your logic decrees that she's allowed an abortion if she so chooses

whabam

I didn't say she would have to keep the baby, but I don't think a child should have to pay for the mother's mistake. Forgive me for being under the mind-set that all kids deserve a chance. I think of the policy as more of a deterrent than a 'punishment.' How does it not encourage irresponsibility? And you're right, it is irresponsible to force a 16 year old who is incapable of taking of her baby. What it boils down to is if you believe that it makes more sense to end the child's life before it begins or to give them a chance with the help of child services?

I don't ever recall comparing abortion to contraception, probably because I didn't. I also never said anything about the procedure for it being simple or painless.

You seem to be all against the death penalty, yet are adamant about the mother having the right to end her own child's life because of her mistake (this excludes pregnancies brought on against her will).

I think I would rest easier knowing my tax dollars will be spent on giving a child an opportunity to live, rather then have to pay for a mistake. My god I am such an asshole.

So apparently 99.9 percent of American men support rape because they watch porn with women in it? Hey it doesn't say anything about female FURRY porn no rape for me!

This post has been edited by Mettlebird: 05 September 2011 - 10:05 PM

Taeshi, on 05 September 2011 - 09:51 PM, said:

I agree. I think that the woman has to have the choice. But that doesn't mean I approve abortion. I think there are other ways. Harder ways, that's right, but there are other ways.

Taeshi, on 05 September 2011 - 09:51 PM, said:

It will become a person if you leave it grow alone. It is because of that point that I don't approve abortion.

Taeshi, on 05 September 2011 - 09:51 PM, said:

I'm not using pregnancy as a way of punish. But by aborting you are punishing the non-born baby. The sad of all that, Taeshi, is that you can't know if a person would be a good or a bad mother. A person willing to be a great mother could be the worse mother in the world. And on the other hand, that girl that decided to abort yesterday for her own personal reason, could have been the best mother in the world.

When I talk about my believes in that mater, many people says me: "And what live would have a baby in an orphanage?". I always say:

I don't know. And that's not a reason for prevent his/her birth.

Anyway, if I could, I would not forbid abortion. As I stated before, the woman has to have the choice and decide by herself. To abort is a really hard decision, as well as a hard procedure, both physically and emotionally.

Taeshi, on 05 September 2011 - 10:02 PM, said:

*volgrand touches his painfull cheek*

Ouuuuch, nice response Taeshi

Volgrand what's your big deal against abortion? You take a pro-choice stance, and yet you think abortion is the worst thing ever.

Also then you contradict yourself saying that you wouldn't forbid abortion.

Purin: You did compare it to contraception. You implied that if abortion was allowed, nympho girls wouldn't keep their legs closed because it's something they could so freely do.

You think the child is only paying for the mother's mistake? How about the mother? You're basically implying her rights are just absolutely gone and you care more about something that doesn't even exist than a living breathing human being who would rather have a life than be brought down by a mistake. Who is to say she won't have a child in the future? The willingness and love should be there, not being framed as a sort of punishment for your warped moral standing.

"With the help of child services" nice job completing blowing your argument about worrying about your precious tax dollars, by the way.

You know nothing.

Abortion is an iffy area for me
I mean Im usually pretty pro choice, but I get confused in areas like one mentioned above
I mean, should someone who sleeps around and gets pregnant be allowed to get abortions as they please even though theyre at fault, or do you make them keep a child they dont want and potentially make the child's future crappy? Its an instance like that where I start to question what the hell should be done about it.

Devilfish, on 05 September 2011 - 09:58 PM, said:

I did not want to sound like that. Contraception is responsibility of both the man and the woman. Maybe I sounded like you said, but it was not my intention.

Devilfish, on 05 September 2011 - 09:58 PM, said:

And is it a good reason to end a life?

Kaizy, on 05 September 2011 - 10:09 PM, said:

Enforced sterilisation of course... that's what they used to do

Interesting idea
And that helps decrease the population

Hey anti-abortion whiners. You sure treat life like it's a precious thing and nobody has the right to take it, are you guys vegans? Do you willingly eat animals? You realise you're aiding in the taking of innocent lives.

Volgrand, on 05 September 2011 - 10:10 PM, said:

Its about as good as any other, its not alive at that early stage, life does not 'start at conception' as the religious right are so eager to tell us.

This post has been edited by Devilfish: 05 September 2011 - 10:14 PM

Seppucrow, on 05 September 2011 - 10:07 PM, said:

I don't contradict me at all. I think it is bad, yeah. But I am no one to forbid a person for doing what he/she fells right. If a pregnant woman considering abortion (with no medical or rape-based reasons) asked me, I would tell her I am against that desition. But I will not stop her from doing whatever she decides.

Lol. Okay! Nice talkin' to ya too!

Devilfish, on 05 September 2011 - 10:13 PM, said:

Well, I am atheist. But I believe that the embryo, when it is attached to the uterus, deserves the chance to develop.

Quote

I don't see a crime in killing an animal for eating. I see a crime in killing an animal with no reason.

Volgrand, on 05 September 2011 - 10:17 PM, said:

>implying there isn't a reason the women wanted an abortion in the first place

Volgrant: I think that's a fair enough belief to have. I'm not actually arguing for everyone to want abortions forever and nobody can have a moral grey area about it, I am more arguing for people to allow the choice to be there. You can disapprove of abortion but still allow your fellow woman to take the option if she feels it's the right choice.

You can be iffy about it, but still realise it's not really your decision to make at the end of the day. Like, you shouldn't remove the rights of a group of people just because you "don't like it." KIND OF LIKE GAY MARRIAGE HUH

And this is still with the firm belief that abortion being allowed will not suddenly cause women to have sex all over the place and abort everywhere, and it doesn't necessarily mean that someone pro-abortion will want to actually abort. I know Commie said in the abortion thread that she would never want to abort even if something were to happen, but just because she won't do it doesn't mean she's not gonna allow everyone else to not do it. She wants to give the option, but she has willingly chosen never to take such option.

Which I think is valid and fair enough.

Problem solved, we use all aborted fetuses for meals.

'I believe that the embryo, when it is attached to the uterus, deserves the chance to develop'

Then a dilapidated world of over population and starvation awaits......

This post has been edited by Devilfish: 05 September 2011 - 10:22 PM

BUT HEY THAT'LL SHOW THE WOMAN FOR MAKING A MISTAKE HUH

Taeshi, I agree with that completly (well, your last long post you post too fast guys). It was a nice debate, after all

Toastyjester, on 05 September 2011 - 10:19 PM, said:

As I said, killing an animal for eating is not a crime
[/joking]

This post has been edited by Volgrand: 05 September 2011 - 10:26 PM

hey let's use aborted fetuses for stem cell research

(OH NO ANOTHER SENSITIVE TOPIC)

Oh my God! What have you done! RUN FOR COVER!!!!

Taeshi, on 05 September 2011 - 10:27 PM, said:

NO HOW DARE YOU USE FETUSES FOR MEDICAL RESEARCH INSTEAD OF THROWING THEM IN A TRASH CAN
[obvious sarcasm]

Fuck research use them for fertilizer in my garden.

they look enough like bacon

we could sell "bacon" sandwiches to the hungry cure hunger

Toastyjester, on 05 September 2011 - 10:31 PM, said:

How about we feed them to wolves and use the wolves excrement on your garden

my thread is getting raped.

lol

Chris, on 05 September 2011 - 10:32 PM, said:

shut up and take it

Bet you the thread has looked at porn with a woman in it

it knows what it's done

Yeah, it's the fault of the thread for supporting rapists.

And i bet it called someone ugly, what a rapist

This post has been edited by WTF: 05 September 2011 - 10:42 PM

I find this thread about a list made by a mentally handicapped christian fem-nazi to be most entertaining

My girlfriend also fits in some of the points of the list. Should I be taking self-defense classes in case her rape-supporting subconscious makes her go into an uncontrollable ovulating rage and tries to assault me? Odd how a rape victim would also be a rape supporter [SARCASM IS GREAT!]

This post has been edited by ChewySmokey: 05 September 2011 - 11:03 PM

Chris, on 05 September 2011 - 10:32 PM, said:

You gots a purty thread, boy.

About the rape list, it states that I'm a rape-supporter. Because I used to watch porn when I was a teen. Sheesh. The sad thing is that there are sound ideas and good points mixed in the nonsense, so I can't even pretend the author was just being sarcastic or trying to troll the audience.

May he who never watched porn throw the first rock - and then I'll toss a boulder back upon the freakin' liar.

About abortions, a female wanting an abortion badly enough WILL find a way to get rid of an unwanted pregnancy. Probably a dangerous way. So I support the legal right of women to have the option of doing an abortion in order to protect the unwilling mother's health both in mind and body.

Plus, if some hypothetical woman started sexing up all around and getting knocked up all the time and aborting every single of them, she'd degrade her life and health pretty badly. It's not grounds to forbid abortion, it's grounds to get such a woman and treat her as dangerously mentally ill.

In the end, it's all about freedom and responsibility. The holier-than-thou side should shut up.

huh, guess I support rape.

brb

It's not rape if you like it....(stupid)

*Picks up rock*
Now am I allowed to throw this at anybody I want? Because I would love to throw it at the person who wrote that list.

Now, I'd like you to tell me what you think about a new argument about abortion I just thought of. It's probably going to need some work to be convincing, but I'd like to get some opinions on it. Many people argue against abortion based on the idea that, after fertilization, the embryo has the potential to mature and be born and grow up. But it only has the potential to mature if it is supplied with nutrients, and once born it can only grow up if it is supplied with food, water, shelter, and other such needs. All of these must come from some outside source, and in some cases people can be prosecuted for not supplying needs even if doing so is very difficult. An unfertilized egg has a need too; and what is really so different about supplying an egg cell with semen, since after all it is more or less predictable when it needs it? So if an embryo is defined as a potential human life and thus necessary to preserve whenever possible, why not an egg cell?

Jerk, on 05 September 2011 - 07:02 PM, said:

Jerk, on 05 September 2011 - 11:55 PM, said:

........
*reading the agument once*

o_O

*reading twice*

O_o

*reading for third time*

o_o
-_-
o_o

Are you stating that an egg should be considered an human life?