Bittersweet Candy Bowl Forums

Poor Junior. So much to deal with, and so little time. ^_^

(Note: This is not at all a point against Junior, but one pertaining to the comments made after his post.)

SuitCase, on 15 December 2010 - 01:51 PM, said:

*sigh* Fine. *gets up*

Hentai13, on 15 December 2010 - 07:45 PM, said:

... Still must put out there, this is already stated. Also, yes, the furries are the target to the Flame War, what a bunch of assholes.

Hentai13, on 15 December 2010 - 07:45 PM, said:

kekon, on 15 December 2010 - 07:45 PM, said:

The major issue is actually putting it out there. It's just something thats odd when people push out their fetishes like it's a big to do.

"I like clown porn, it's part of the reason i read BittersweetClownBowl" .

I know it exists, I don't care, yada yada keep to yourself and whatever

I'm more shocked you guys are overanalysing a statement Souppy said that was clearly a joke.

Pants, on 16 December 2010 - 02:08 AM, said:

This is exactly what I think. I don't think a hobby or fetish should encompass your character that much. I can give two shits what your religion, ethnicity, or sexual orientation is, but when it's thrust in my face like it's your prize fucking trophy don't expect me to not get annoyed at your elitist attitude.

Taeshi, on 16 December 2010 - 02:40 AM, said:

I'm offended that you are mocking my right to review and comment and explain my opinion.

Stop trying to mute my voice! I have a god given ability to voice my opinion i'll damn well comment on everything suitcases says as it is truth.

CaptainBaconMan, on 16 December 2010 - 02:42 AM, said:

The thing is while yes, there are furries that go "HEY I'M NEW AROUND HERE!!!!!!" "h...h-hi.." "I'M A FURRY " "ohhh... kay"

but there are those times where its like, "EHHHHh! I FUKIN HATE DEM NON-CHRISTIANITY FOLKS! THEY ALL DESEVE TO DIE!" and then you (or someone you know) then says," Well, I'm a jew, do you think I should die?" then they're all akward because your their friend and they don't want you to die.

Several times around here I've been seeing "I FUKIN HATE DEM FURRIES! DEY IS IMMORALIZED QUEER LOSERS!" I would much rather expose my identity ("LOL Liek batmen?" shut up) as a part of the furry community, then to just see a person ignorantly hate on a group of people. A fetish is something thats with you right from the start of your life, and for it to be frowned upon by most of the community, which re-enforces the fact that "Hey, most people won't accept you for who you are, because society doesn't believe it's right." not cool. then for some asshole on the internet to slander furries right in front of one, "Not. Fucking. Cool."

This post has been edited by kekon: 16 December 2010 - 03:37 AM

Oh hi I'm generic furry A, you guys are so ignorant about furries. I mean gosh we are so discriminated against, have you seen how discriminated against we are. And I mean it's not like there have been much bigger displays of discrimination in history, like the jews, africans, and even though it's getting better, homosexuals. Of course I'm totally not overreacting on the internet.

You're comparing the discrimination there was in the past towards black people and Jews to the discrimination furry people get?

Seriously?

Lycan, you do realize the entire point of that paragraph I wrote was to say how furries over exaggerate things, right? The whole statement was one large exaggeration.

Kekon, chill out. Lashing out at everyone over a percieved slight isn't going to help your case much. Take it with a pinch of salt and move on. The reason people go for furries so much is because they make themselves a bloody target. Like Pants stated, I don't care about your preferences, because they are just that.

They don't affect me in the slightest, but what does affect me is a group of people getting all outraged over little things and foisting their opinions on me. That winds me up, so don't do it, please. Moving right along...

kekon, on 16 December 2010 - 03:25 AM, said:

.... You think a fetish is something your born with?

I'd rather not get into details on fetishes, but I will say that if you have never heard of or have been exposed to a certain fetish, chances are you won't be into it.

Take homosexuals for example, (and i'm not calling homosexuality a fetish gtfo) if no one ever spoke about homosexuals, and they never featured on television or the internet or any information medium, there would be very few of them. Your sexual behavior is probably 90% enviroment based. I'd say 100% but I have heard of people with certain genes being more sexually active.

Anialator, on 16 December 2010 - 04:54 PM, said:

uh...
are you seriously saying someone's sexuality is entirely based on their environment

side note: wow has this thread gotten off-topic

fancharacters, huh

This post has been edited by SpaceMouse: 16 December 2010 - 06:25 PM

SpaceMouse, on 16 December 2010 - 06:19 PM, said:

Yes.

I haven't looked into the rumor of the gay gene stuff because i'm really not that interested in finding out. I'd have thought a gay gene would die out pretty damn fast, since they would not be making babies, passing on the genes.

Edit: And your right, we need to get this thread back on track.
http://www.bitterswe.../post/view/2430
Hey look a new post with the tag fancharacter. *Grabs the pitchforks and torches*

This post has been edited by Anialator: 16 December 2010 - 06:38 PM

Dude, even though I agree that being gay is not entirely against your will, I do have to agree that it as least in part due to genetics, and it probably has varying degrees of affects on different people. You can't see things in black and white because in the real world it's almost never that way.

Also, there have been gay people for fucking forever, go look at the greeks dude, none of them thank twice about being with another man.

"The ancient Greeks did not conceive of sexual orientation as a social identifier"

This post has been edited by CaptainBaconMan: 16 December 2010 - 06:45 PM

CaptainBaconMan, on 16 December 2010 - 06:42 PM, said:

Well yeah, that's why I doubt there is a gay gene, and is instead based on enviroment.

Anialator, on 16 December 2010 - 07:26 PM, said:

Pretty much every action you take is at least in part predispositioned by your genetics.

Also I am dropping this topic because it has nothing to do with the thread.

This post has been edited by CaptainBaconMan: 16 December 2010 - 07:33 PM

Quote

D'OH I totally missed the "I'm generic furry A" thing
I guess that means I agree with you in whatever you were discussing.

Excuse me, I'll go hide my face for a couple of days.

This post has been edited by Lycan: 17 December 2010 - 12:05 AM

To assume that people turn gay because of the environment they were raised in is very, VERY wrong. Because it encourages the whole thought about "Oh gay couples can't adopt children because THEY WILL BE TURNED GAY!!!!", which is just so incorrect it's mindblowing.

Also guys chill out about debating about other things. I think all that was said was said in regards to fancharacters, and this is interesting. It's not like it's shitposting like a certain someone that starts with an H..

Quote

Oh hi I'm a SUPER CHRISTIAN so everything I say must be right! And man because I'm CHRISTIAN I HATE dem gays and shit. Oh yeah man those fuckers can die. Dem Jews can go die too for all I care oh geez they should feel ashamed of themselves.

Off topic post is off topic and over exaggerated, if you really want to discuss this shit go make another thread. Geez.

Actually, I don't think we need a thread like that. That thread would be so filled with negative energy it would implode and suck the entire forum down a black hole.

Proof that fancharacters are bad.

Anialator, on 16 December 2010 - 07:26 PM, said:

That logic makes no sense. The vast majority of society in social groups and media is straight. By your logic, we would eventually phase out "the gay" instead of having the numbers increase.

Sexual preference is determined by your hardwiring, nothing more or less.

Anialator, on 16 December 2010 - 06:35 PM, said:

Actually that's pretty stupid; in fact, downright moronic and ignorant of genetics. Look at sickle-cell anemia; its bad as a homologous trait but good as a heterologous one as it grants resistance against malaria.

Really, there's no evidence to suggest being gay has anything to do with environment, as the distribution of gays is essentially random, and homosexuals are NOT a new thing; the ignorant would think they are more prevalent lately, but the knowledgable would know they've been around, but because it was socially unacceptable people didn't know they were there; they were there, though. It would make sense as a response to crowding stress (the gay uncle theory) but the gays out in the countryside are a bit confusing in that case.

I don't think we understand chaos well enough to assume that it's also just based on genes. Everyone experiences different things as they grow up, and they respond to those things differently, and over time you build your core characteristics. Some people go through drastic changes during their lifetime. And obviously, your genetics heavily influenced the way you respond to your environment, but humans have already displayed the capacity to surpass instinctual urges. I really can't believe that you will have 100% chance of being gay if you have some mystical 'gay gene'. Humans and genetics are too complicated for it to be that way.

Junior Boomer, on 16 December 2010 - 11:13 AM, said:

Overreacting- it's why forums exist.

I think environment might play a little part on 'turning' someone gay. But I think genetics has a lot more part on it.
And even with that environment thing, if people really got in their heads that <Lucy>being gay is A-Ok</Lucy>, there wouldn't be problem with gay couples adopting.

Anialator, on 16 December 2010 - 04:54 PM, said:

I know from experience; because while I didnt understand the sensation as a small child, I got turned on by things that seemed like normal things to other people, I could go into detail about what exactly my specific fetish is (but wont until I can reach a computer that will let me code the " hide spoiler" button. Fucking iPod.)
Yes, ive had the fetish as long as I lived.

This post has been edited by kekon: 17 December 2010 - 09:29 AM

Holy shit, I just got the biggest migrant case in existance. I've been reading the opinions posted here for most if today, I forgot to eat breakfast. And it's already like 6pm

kekon, on 17 December 2010 - 08:46 AM, said:

Now while I'm a big fan of the awesomely immature,"spoof comment", I should mention that I'm the type of guy that will take everything seriously, I live around a very politically inclined family, so I'll always throw my arms in the air and do "The Republican"

Don't immediately assume that emotions are directly affiliated with one aspect of a lifestyle, because then you'll end up being the retarded researcher dude who claimed "Adolecencent Violence is directly associated with Video games" only to be disproven this year by "Common (motherf&@king) Sense"


Happy holidays.
FIXED IT!

This post has been edited by kekon: 17 December 2010 - 05:35 PM

Holy fuckin shit, trying to do anything in these forums on the moble version is the biggest piece of shit, i thought I got rid of my headache but I try to reply to some post and now it's back, fuck that. I'll fix these posts when I get to the nearest computer.

There's a lot of pages to read, but I'd just like to put in my own opinion on the matter: too much of anything is a bad thing. I generally don't find fancharacters to be bad in themselves, but I can only imagine how horrible they can be when people try to get you to implement their characters into your storyline. It's really hard to measure though, like a lot of people have mentioned, as to where the line is to be drawn with making fancharacters. If you find it that necessary to take down/prevent fancharacter art on the image board, I believe Tae and Suit have every right to do so. It's not going to stop people from making fancharacters of course, but BCB is THEIR site and they have a say as to what gets to be put on it. I know a lot of webcomic artists who also provide a FAQ for common questions asked, especially those considering cameos/fancharacters, etc, and how they refuse to do anything related with fancharacters.They post up fan art done by fans and refuse to put up fan art as well. BCB certainly isn't the only webcomic with fancharacters, though it may only seem like it due to the community. Not a lot of artists regularly communicate with their fans. Still, I know that Tae has included fancharacters/cameos in the past, but it doesn't mean she can't stop. I would just ignore all those fancharacter/cameo requests, despite how much of a fuss those fans can make. We all make mistakes, and even then, at the end of the day, the comic belongs to Tae. She isn't obligated to do anything relating to other people's requests.


On another note:

Titanium Dragon, on 17 December 2010 - 02:47 AM, said:

Um, just wow. I agree with the environment not playing a role in sexuality. I'm a psychology major, and we've studied many areas of history relating to psychology. One of them did have to do with sexuality, and there was a research/experiment about a psychologist suggesting the "nature vs. nurture" theory. There was a boy getting a routine circumcision but his penis was burned off because the doctor was using an electrocautery needle instead of a scalpel. The psychologist suggested the boy get a sex change and was then known as Brenda. Long story short, Brenda went through "her" life being unsure and questioning a lot of things, including sexuality. The parents didn't even tell about the accident when she was a baby. The family fell apart: mom was suicidal, dad was an alcoholic, and brother was depressed. Brenda eventually found out when her parents finally told her at 14. She got a sex change, again, but committed suicide six years ago.

To say the environmental factors is pretty ignorant. I don't know if there is anything that has to do with genetics, but regardless, it really is due to the individual. I have no problem with homosexuality, but I feel we as a society need to stop thinking about it as some sort of disease. Homosexuality isn't just present in our species, but throughout the animal kingdom. Sounds normal to me.

Damn I just pissed off a lot of people

I was only really talking about fetishes in general, I only mentioned gays because it was the first thing that popped into my head... apart from furries, but I assumed more people would be butt hurt if I had used them as an example. IM NOT HOMOPHOBIC STFUWHUT.

The only point I was trying to make was that it's unlikely you'll develop a fetish for something which you have not already heard of as a fetish. Maybe i'm just boring but all of the few fetishes i've got came from looking at existing fetishes and thinking "Yeah that's pretty hot."

Yay, nature-versus-nurture debate between unqualified people, using gayness as an example, in a forum about cat comics.

Let me lay down the LAW
(for the tl'dr people like me, just ignore the italicised text)

Homosexuality and other sexual deviations have commonly been observed in several mammalian species when groups of individuals are under heavy stress. This is most common when the population becomes too large for the area it occupies, while food is still plentyful and there are no significant problems of waste build-up. Humans are no different: we live in a much higher population density then we were evolved to, we have plenty of food and working toilets (in developed and developing countries anyway). Sexual deviations aren't the only observed changes in these scenarios. A large increase in aggressive and anti-socialy behaving individuals is also commonly seen, as well as more obese individuals than in a natural environment. Sounds familiar?

The most famous experiment of this kind involved observations of rats in a sealed basement, being provided with water and food at will. This is the wikipedia article (though it's not very thorough). Most firt year university biology books have a chapter or a part of a chapter dedicated to this experiment, and it's a good read.

Conclusion: as always it's both genetic AND environmental. Genetic in the sense that the species is predisposed to produce some deviants upon high density, and environmental in the sense that the "high density" is an environmental requirement, and that which individuals change and which don't is impossible to predict.

I win.

DISCLAIMER(Aka: I don't hate gays):
Just because it's a deviation from "natural" behaviour is no reason to discriminate, hurt or otherwise make people's life more difficult. A hell of a lot of other every-day behaviours people have could be considered not "natural" and most people are ok with them. Plus even if it was "intrinsically wrong", it's never nice to make people's life harder for any one reason, specially if it doesn't affect you.

This post has been edited by Migrant: 18 December 2010 - 06:15 PM

edit: nevermind

This post has been edited by NoCreativeNames: 18 December 2010 - 06:48 PM

I just think that the only way most new readers know of these fan characters that Taeshi hates (K.izuna and Tess, for example) are just characters they grew to love because of how Taeshi wrote and drew them. I appreciate the way Taeshi writes them the way I appreciate the way Taeshi writes Lucy or Spacemouse writes Melody (or Maverik writes anyone).

Do I think people should create fan characters still? No. But I understand the drive to want to be a part of the universe and, perhaps, see Taeshi make something interesting out of something crude. Not that it could even happen anymore, I'm just saying it makes sense.

For what it's worth, Taysh, you wrote characters that everyone wants to be friends with. Essentially interesting, good characters in high school as many of your fans are. Honestly? I think they wish their high school experience were something like that, which is why they keep coming up with these terrible characters. They're just cardboard cut-outs through which they can live vicariously. That's all.

I WILL SNIP UP DEM CARDBOARD CUT-OUTS.

haha

I know there's the whole awkwardness of "oh that's their way of showing they love you!!", but ehh. I have heard that argument before and I understand it, but the annoyance exists already.

I'm honestly just doing other ways of solving it as opposed to raging every few minutes. I'm just gonna avoid any and all cameos from now on, and just try not to ignore fancharacter fanfics and stories. I guess I initially felt bad because since I'm so "involved" I have kind of no choice but to read them/look or else I'll be considered an ungrateful sod or something? But now I just realised I rather be distant from those than an outright bitch.

That's fine. I don't blame you either way, and I'm not all that qualified to speak on anyone's behalf as I have no fan character/fursona/what-have-you. I can't really imagine how it must be. I'd probably set up a guillotine for new fan characters, but I'm highly intolerant (I'm from Texas, of course I'm intolerant).

I guess I can understand too why you'd think they'd think you're ungrateful but just because you write a charismatic comic doesn't mean that it's okay for them to demand insertion. It is rape. RAPE! Of your comic.

I don't know anymore. I just say, "Yeah, I know where you're coming from...but grow up." If you say "no," they should respect that boundary, right? Shit yeah.

It's funny how "grow up" is to not be bugged by it anymore. Like adults can't be annoyed by things. There's tolerance for a reason, which is something I'm gonna do because I know the childish thing to do is to ban and delete everything.

There's ban and delete everything and ban and delete sporadically =D

Keep your options open

...I expected this to die some time back. :I
Eh, oh well.

I can't even remember what my opinion is on this subject anymore but uhhhhh yeah, i think fan characters are fine if they get posted in the art section. Do it for fun and not to get in the comic. you can show your appreciation but lay off the need for the cameo. write your own comic if you really need to throw something into another story. ugh, my left 4 dead angst is up again.

lolwut, on 19 December 2010 - 07:23 AM, said:

Hopfully that helped, I'm going to bed, oh, and this thread will never die. >D
And thanks to recent SHIT in the Gallery, this thread may get re-active, and on topic again.

This post has been edited by kekon: 19 December 2010 - 10:09 AM

Taeshi, on 18 December 2010 - 11:16 PM, said:

I wasn't telling you to grow up, I was saying that people should stop trying to insert themselves to live vicariously through the works of others.

ohhh i see, haha i couldn't tell aaaaaaa

I can see how you did though; I phrased it badly. I, uh, wasn't exactly sober when I typed it. n_n;;

Um.
Wow.
This topic provided like, 40 minutes of entertainment. THANKS GUYS.

Any "you"s don't actually refer to anyone, okay?

Jerk has made the most valid point I've seen on these seven pages. Taeshi is an incredibly talented person, and proud of her work, there's no denying it, so why is there a knee-jerk assumption that your individual twist of it will be welcome? When you make something brilliant, you want to leave it be, or if you do improve on it, you should be the one to do so. Because no-one else has your frame of mind. And yes, Taeshi did include fancharacters in the beginning, but that's because she is a good person. Her friends came to her with an idea, and she found a place for them. The whole point there is because Taeshi knew them well, and got on with them. There's a reason why you tolerate things done by people you get on with, and that's because you don't want to hurt their feelings. This isn't going to make me very popular, but it sounds like for a while the FCs have been taking advantage of her good nature. It's understandable that you want to show support towards the comic, but is it possible to do it in a less intrusive way? If you want to make an alternative storyline or comic that's free of FCs, I don't see a problem with that. For the most part, which has been said already, because you aren't putting a self-insert/wish-fulfillment or whatever. Shouldn't the story or idea behind it make it original?

Now, I'm gonna go and finish the *FC-free* fanstory I've been procrastinating over for about two months.

less intrusive way? vote, donate $, promise Starcraft II HotS to korea for reading. pretty easy if you ask me.

A question for Taeshi, seems on topic enough to fit in here.

Do you ever find that fan characters/fan fiction influence any of your own work?

Because reading some of the fan made stuff has changed my oppinion of some of the characters whether I wanted it to or not, I know that they are non canon but they do still have a small influence.
It just seemed like this would have been one of the larger annoyances mentioned in this thread but it was never said about once, I know for a fact that I wouldn't be happy if I had made something great and then my fans started to succesfully influenceing MY work.