Bittersweet Candy Bowl Forums

I work in a company that owns a chains of grocery stores. Their stores include things such as bakeries and deli departments. I happen to work in the deli department on occasion. Tonight a man came in and asked for $3 worth of chicken tenders. There were hardly any left in the hot case, so I went ahead and threw them all into a bag and weighed them out. It came to $3.75 and I asked if that was alright. He responds with a no and goes on to tell me he only wants to spend $3 total. I take out a few of the tenders and proceed to put then into a separate bag.

I go about completing his order, putting a price tag on it and packaging it. He proceeds to ask me what I'm going to do with the leftover food. Being the end of the night, meaning the department is all but closed, I tell him that I'll have to distress the food and dispose of it accordingly. The man goes on to tell me I'm heartless because I'm throwing out food that hungry people could be eating. He tells me I should go ahead and give him the leftover tenders. I explain I can't do that as I'll be fired for doing so. He bluntly lets me know that my job isn't worth the lives of others. I'm annoyed at this point and tell him my job is my livelihood which allows me to pay the bills and put food on the table.

I eventually go on to say, that even if we did hand out the leftover food for free at the end of the night, that would inevitably lead to no one buying food during the day and having mass amounts of people line up at night for free food. Including lazy teenagers, people who are more than capable of getting a job and people who are well off enough to not need free food. He tells me to fuck off and leaves.

What I'm asking here is, do you think it's morally wrong for big companies to just throw out food? If so, how would said companies make money? How do we determine who needs the food and who's just abusing something?

I've worked in many different chain stores. One that actually handed out free food at night and let me tell you, that didn't work. You'd get one fat lazy bastard coming in every night taking plates upon plates of food. Family owned stores tend to give out free food at the end of the night more than large companies.

No it isn't. Don't ask me why, because my experience and knowledge will make me ramble about shit non-stop.

Giygas, on 12 December 2011 - 06:17 AM, said:

...Why?

Ahsaan, on 12 December 2011 - 06:22 AM, said:

I said not to ask me why.

Giygas, on 12 December 2011 - 06:22 AM, said:

But I want to hear your nuggets of wisdom!

Ahsaan, on 12 December 2011 - 06:23 AM, said:

I'll summarize: "The hungry" are usually hobos who are on the streets for their own stupidity.

Make exceptions, and you'll be mobbed by freeloaders that don't necessarily need the products. Makes perfect sense to me. For every act of goodwill, there's a scumbag ready to exploit it. There are truly needy people out there, but it would take too much effort sorting through the fakes. Ignore that dude's comments, he's only seeing one side of it.

This post has been edited by The Observer: 12 December 2011 - 06:30 AM

Maybe it is a bit wasteful, but as an employee you don't have any control over it, and therefore I wouldn't worry about it too much. I used to work at a Frito Lay plant that would recycle thrown out food into meal for livestock, so there are alternatives to simply throwing food out, but again, there are far worse things that corporations do besides wasting food.

I have a bigger problem with the guy who was trying to use morals and ethics to guilt you into to getting free food.

Oh no one can outright guilt me into anything. I would've gone off on the guy if I hadn't been worried about my job in general. I don't feel like I'm doing anything wrong by throwing out food. It's passed the legal temp time, so you could possibly get sick from it anyhow.

First, I believe that guy was an asshole and that you did the right thing about worrying about yourself in that event. I've been in a similar situation as yours where I had to take an order for a lady and out of nowhere she starts ranting about how horrible the restraunt is while saying it was all my fault... I still took her order anyway.

Now answering the question.
I believe that it's not that morally wrong, but big monopolists should try to make an effort to give the food to people who need it. Most companies are only in it for the money, not caring for the consumers or anyone who actually needs it. However, if they do, then they would find a way to make some kind of profit out of it. I suppose that people who actually need the food should fill out something like an application where they would list out how their living staus is and determine by that if they are elligable or not for free food.(I kinda doubt that would work, I just came up with something.)

Again, I'm happy that you stood your ground against that guy.

This post has been edited by ThatOtherMichael: 12 December 2011 - 06:38 AM

why not just put it back? I assume you used tongs, not your fingers? and if you used your fingers then why not put them back anyways? you're just going to use them again next time you give someone the food.

Tongs yeah. I threw them out because he asked for them right when I was condensing the case (throwing out the leftover food before the department officially shuts down for the night and then we clean.) so there was no point in putting the food back.

I don't this this is about morality or big companies at all. I mean if the food is past the temp time then it should be thrown out for safety more than anything else, it's a big health risk to give it out after it's due time. Frankly you're doing the right thing by getting rid of it, since it could make someone sick.

That guy was just trying to guilt his way into free food. (Please tell me he wasn't a black guy....it's people like that that make me facepalm out race sometimes, no joke)

ah, so it was quitting time, i see. I thought this was in the middle of the day. our local store has an interesting policy. if their is any leftover food when the store closes, they just bag it up and the workers take it home. they have really good food, and they don't have to go out and buy dinner, which i'm sure is the last thing anyone wants to do after work. they can just go home and relax and not worry about it.
and nothing is wasted!

but if it was spoiled, it shouldn't have been being sold in the first place!

This post has been edited by Chris: 12 December 2011 - 06:49 AM

Nah it was a skinny white guy, Fighter. lol

I wish we could take food home heh. I really love the chicken strips, jojos and pizza sticks. We're not allowed because our employer is afraid we might start setting food aside especially for us. The chicken tenders weren't spoiled yet, since I had just recently taken them out (I was a little later than usual. Helping customers and what not.) of the hot case. They wouldn't have lasted much longer though. I temped them before selling them to the guy. I was just in the process of getting ready to throw everything out and he happened to come up. He got lucky that the food was still at the right temp, but the remaining food would've had to be sold in the next 5 minutes or so and I didn't feel like anyone would show up in that time frame.

the thing is, the people at our store never set stuff aside because they know if they take too much the employer wont let them do it anymore.

We're only allowed to "sample" things for product knowledge.

I sample several jojos a day. >_>

We're allowed to munch things on the job, but that's about it. Marc (Our store's owner.) is a real dick. The guy will do anything to save himself a buck. He's told us if we want food, we can buy it at the end of our shift; even if it's old and well passed the temp period.

wow, what a dick. :|

anyway as to the thread topic, I think it is only morally wrong if there is an alternative. like, if your boss says you can give it to a soup kitchen but you throw it out anyways. that is immoral. but if there are no other reasonable options, then i'm ok with it.

This post has been edited by Chris: 12 December 2011 - 07:35 AM

I've given nice people or people who look truly in need a little extra something sometimes. Like I throw in an extra chicken strip or more jojos. I only do it if I know I won't get caught though and if the people deserve it. And I always give very large samples to little kids or give them a cookie or something sugary that they probably don't need lol...

Under that crunchy exterior, Minto-chan is really sweet and gooey.

Based on the menu you described, I think I used to work as a cashier at the same grocery store chain. For some reason, customers who shop at that particular chain have a real tendency to abuse customers.

Giygas, on 12 December 2011 - 06:24 AM, said:

Wow, okay.

For starters, you're a dipshit. I'm sure you already knew this but, just in case there was any doubt, I'd like to make that perfectly clear to you. While you're entitled to your own opinion, godDAMN, your reasoning is just... fucking terrible. One, you can't just fucking have a position and expect to be taken seriously without being asked to defend it. If that's how you think it works, you may be more defective than I initially thought. Furthermore, getting pissy over being asked? Saying "I told you not to ask" doesn't make you seem cool/mysterious/etc. It just solidifies your dipshittery. Moving on, the hungry? The poor? They're all on the streets for their stupidity? Wow... I mean, WOW. That's your reasoning? Your golden defense for you opinion? For starters, that isn't a defense, that's just an ignorant opinion that has no backing so, you've already failed on that front. Beyond that, how do... How does one even BELIEVE that? How is it possible that someone is that short-sighted? That UNEVOLVED? That BAFFLES me. Is it really so beyond your fucking pea-brain to believe that maybe, just fucking MAYBE, there could be someone who is on the streets due to circumstances beyond your control? No, it's easier for you to believe that every last one of them is just a lazy sack of shit, isn't it? Because, oh man, having your perspective challenged, having to fucking THINK is just too beyond your privileged fucktitude, isn't it?

How do people like you EXIST?

On topic: The person you dealt with was too ignorant to understand that you would be risking your job to give him that. That's his problem and you shouldn't feel guilty for it. As for the question at large, I'd say it's circumstantial, really. If there's no shelter around and there's nothing to do with it, then there shouldn't be any guilt for throwing it away. Sure, it suck and, sure, there are people who would kill for that food but, there's no easy way to get that food to Africa or other places with hungry people and even if there was, it would spoil by the time it would arrive. If there is something that can be done with the food, though? If it could be given to a local shelter? Then it absolutely should.

Speaking on a bigger scale, this is actually an issue that the European Union faces with Common Agricultural Policy. Countries are encouraged to produce as much as possible but, unfortunately, that leaves a surplus of food. At first, this surplus was sent to Africa but, the Union soon learned that they'd be losing way too much money doing that and now the food just sits in "intervention" warehouses where it eventually spoils. It's a fairly major issue and something they've been trying to solve since the policy began.

This post has been edited by Mikaro: 12 December 2011 - 08:22 AM

Mikaro, on 12 December 2011 - 08:14 AM, said:

...how did I miss giygas's post...

yeah, mikaro hit it on the head with this one. man, I am really getting the spoiled rich kid vibe from you giygas. have you any experience with the less fortunate? did you ever think that in this economy, that some people, despite their efforts might not be able to find work and pay their bills? that some people fall on hard times because of things that they could not control? "No they are all lazy bums and they don't deserve to be fed and should all starve so we can get those trash off the street" REALLY?

Do you like going on ROLLER-coasters? And yelling lots when YOU go up and down so that the PRESsure on you lungs created by the gravitaTIONal forces varies in intensity CAUSing you to ranDOMly change the VOLUME of YOUR voice.
But I agree with your point.

Customers are dicks.
/thread

To be fair, there's a fair number of "homeless" people who are homeless over stupid as hell reasons. Not all of them, of course, but I've seen a few who have given me the most ridiculous reasoning.

Mikaro and Chris, you are putting a LOT of words into Giygas' mouth. His exact words were:

"The hungry" are usually hobos who are on the streets for their own stupidity."

He did not say "ALL homeless", nor did he call anyone a lazy sack of shit. He was making a very large simplification because he didn't want to write a long story and back up his points.

I HAVE worked among the homeless; in fact I was homeless for a few weeks, and I have to say that many people (NOT ALL) who live on the streets and beg because they don't want to work. Yes, there are people who try very, very hard to improve their lives, and there are people who, for one reason or another, cannot, but there are homeless that prefer to live on the streets and beg and act entitled and they give the rest of them a bad name.

I'll give ONE story to back up my words. I was doing missionary work in Belize. I was waiting for a bus in Belize and a man with one leg asks me for money for food. I was young and naive, and I was instructed by my host family to NOT give money to strangers. When I refused, he asked if I could take him to a restaurant and buy him some food. He gave me a very soulful look and again I refused, almost on the verge of tears for this man. Ten minutes later I was sitting in the bus stop feeling like a heel when I see the same man walk up to the counter and buy a carton of cigarettes. He has to beg for food, but can afford cigarettes? People like that treat begging like a career, and I don't support that kind of lifestyle.

My uncle and his best friend decided to be homeless downtown for a day. They dressed in old clothes that were worn thin and full of holes. Rolled around in dirt and garbage for a while to look the part and then sat on the corner for about 6 hours total. Guess how much money they made?

$300

They lied, gave every sob story in the book from having starving children to having lost their wives to cancer. They donated the money to a soup kitchen in the end, but the fact of the matter is, it's easy and homeless people can actually make a lot of money. A lot of them spend their "food money" they get from begging on drugs, alcohol and cigarettes. Some of them gamble away all the money they get.

I once had a guy come up to me, begging me for money because his daughter was hungry. His daughter was with him. I didn't have any cash, but I ran back inside the store and bought him and his daughter a meal. Instead of thanking me, he told me he didn't ask for food. I was appalled.

Another time, a woman begged a friend and I for money so she could buy feminine hygiene products. I had no money on me whatsoever (Hah window shopping.) but Alisha offered to go buy some for her. The woman refused and said, "Just give me the money." about 3 days later, we saw the same woman get out of an expensive car, well dressed and with her daughter talking about going over to each other's houses for a party.

Point being, not every homeless person is innocent. Some are legit, some aren't. It's too hard to tell who's who.

There's proper channels for charity too.

Adawg99, on 12 December 2011 - 09:00 AM, said:

I suppose that is true. I guess I was also taking out my rage at him for his opinion on the protesters and stuff. And, I mean, just in general he acts like a privileged asshole but, I suppose that's no reason to put words in his mouth which is something I did, I guess. My opinion on him however, still stands. And if he has a defense for his opinion, regardless of how long it is, I'd like to hear it. Otherwise, he can keep his shit opinions to himself.

MintyLimeGreen said:

As you pointed out, a lot of food simply can't be kept past a certain time, after which it potentially becomes unsafe to consume. In that case, it's better to dispose of the food. For less-perishable goods, grocery stores will often have sales to move the product, so they at least get some money out of it.

If a store is serious about being ethically responsible about food waste, they can work with a local charity. The charity can then distribute the food as it sees fit. Grocery stores are not charities in themselves, and as others have said above, it would be a bad precedent for the store to directly hand out free food to whoever every night.

Solution: donate leftover food to food pantries. That's what most of the businesses in my area do.

Ahsaan, on 12 December 2011 - 07:42 AM, said:

Stay away from my Minty.......on a side note what's a jojo?

Fried potato wedges, more or less.

Oh my God I HAVE TO MAKE THOSE NOW. Thanks a ton, Minty. Now I'm gonna be all fat(ter).

Anyway, I personally despise the waste of food, and there should be more ways to use that food rather than waste it. For instance, before the chicken reaches the point where it'd be dangerous to eat, chop it up with some onions, celery, radishes, and make some ballin' chicken salad that can be stored in the fridge and eaten cold. That chicken will now last a couple more days, and even if you can't sell it, it could be a good lunch for workers while not using up any more resources that could be sold to customers instead. At my job, my boss is very against food spoiling, and will gladly send me home with boxes of stuff since my family is so large and 'it's just gonna go bad anyway'.

It's not really wrong. Wasteful, maybe, but because of how imprinted it is in human nature to take advantage of generous opportunities, it's better to throw the food away, or else others would just continuously take advantage of it, as you said.

If the majority of the human race were anything more than only slightly above base, then it wouldn't be a problem. But the view of most individuals is parochial; chained to only what affects them and in slightly better cases: people they know. They don't stop to consider how certain acts might adversely affect others than themselves, so when they're presented with the alternative that helps them none, they label those others as "selfish" and "heartless."

So yes, you did the right thing, mainly because humans generally don't stop to consider their fellow man to that extent. It'd be nice if we could give things away just to be generous and not be taken advantage of, but such is not the world we live in.

This post has been edited by Lux Aeterna: 12 December 2011 - 10:02 PM

Bourbon, we do make chicken salad out of all the roasted chickens we have leftover as well as saving the leftover fried chicken to make cold fried chicken buckets.

Tenders just can't be saved for some weird reason. Also, most of the other food would be really nasty cold. Jojos get soggy and weird and leftover jojos at night are usually hard as a rock. We save all the soups though and package them. Certain things just cannot be saved, such as the jalapeno poppers and pizza sticks or pizza slices. They just get gross if you try and save them.

Adawg99, on 12 December 2011 - 09:00 AM, said:

Thank you. And that's all I've ever seen when I try to help out people on the streets. One of the people a few miles away pretends to be disabled (she sits in a wheelchair). Give her money, and she gets out of the wheelchair and goes to a gas station instead of a restaurant, usually to buy alcohol. When I give money to people, I expect them to actually need things as opposed to wanting them. That is how it always ends up, so I stopped caring about the poor. Unless it's a person who I know is extremely honest (and this has thankfully not happened yet), I will never give money to a beggar on the street.

You know what I'd do if a homeless person asked for money to buy food? I'd tell them to wait there, and then I'd get food from a store and give it to them.

EDIT: And I'd make sure to buy something I liked, so that if they weren't there, I'd eat it.

This post has been edited by Lux Aeterna: 13 December 2011 - 12:09 AM

Giygas: most people who beg are not truly needy. The truly needy can't risk the potential for rejection. They'll rummage trashcans before they beg for money for a bag of chips. Instead of giving up on the poor like you say you have, give up on the bums who panhandle. For the most part, they're two different groups. It's insulting that you'd associate the poor as a whole with greedy assholes like them.

I've mentioned this before, but if you want to help the hungry, donate to a food pantry. The people who go there have to report their incomes in order to get benefits, and there is no way in hell for them to abuse the service and get away with it. Donating a dollar to Harvester's is a good way to help a well.

Carcharocles, on 13 December 2011 - 12:15 AM, said:

Then I'll give that a shot.

I'm glad you'll try that.

Yeah, I myself am fairly poor, below poverty line and all. The food pantry helps me out tremendously between paychecks. I'm glad some of our local grocery stores (and for some reason, local Pizza Huts) donate so much food to the one I visit. But my own experience with panhandlers is they are pretty much all dishonest. There's a guy who panhandles up closer to downtown, who makes well over 100 grand doing it and drives a Jaguar that he bought with panhandling money. I'm one of those people who'd sell my possessions for food before I'd panhandle, so I find guys like him despicable.

A tip: you have to wait until a month from the day when you visit a food pantry to go to another one. You're allowed to goof once, but if it happens a second time you'll be banned from food pantries everywhere. There's a database, believe it or not.

This post has been edited by Carcharocles: 13 December 2011 - 12:26 AM

In my opinion, it would be better safe than sorry. But the fact he asked directly for the food instead of money could have meant he was being truthful. Also, try looking for "tells" that the person is lying, like a quick shift in the eyes, a nervous look in their voice, that probably means they are lying sacks of garbage. I think it would have been immoral to not give him the food, but didn't he talk about the starving in the world? Maybe he wasn't talking about himself. But anyways, I've had to deal with the homeless. For example, one of my brothers friends came to the door in the dead of night when we hadn't seen him in a while. We knew his father was abusive, but it finally drove him to run away. So I was the only one home at the time so I brought my ugly stick ( kind of like a night stick, but I made it, and it is crude looking, hence the name, but it can put a dent in a man's skull) to the door, and saw him there. I barely recognized him, but I understood at first glance why he was here. I gave him gloves, a heavy jacket, a refillable water bottle ( already filled), a Swiss army knife, and a few cans of food and sent him on his way. I would have felt bad if I made him leave without anything. Anyways, the point I am trying to make is I didn't need those items ( * Coughs* Chicken * Coughs*) so I gave him them. My point is, it is fine to be charitable, just make sure you do not need it, and make sure they ain't lying.

I would have said, "Actually, I am going to make a really really big sandwich with it once I get home and eat it."

I mean, companies probably don't think much of it because the amount of money lost on the leftovers is negligible. To change the system probably isn't that cost-effective, and unfortunately that is all that matters in the purely business-minded.

This post has been edited by Purin: 13 December 2011 - 01:11 AM

Buddy, what do you mean, "immoral to not give him the food." are you talking about the guy I talked to? He was paying for it, so ya know, I kinda can't tell him to fuck off or something. If anyone comes up and asks for free food, I'm going to tell them no, no matter how hard up they look. I have a job, I'm paid to do it. I won't feel bad for not giving them food. I will certainly point the ones I feel are truly needy in the right direction though. I believe the store I work in even donates large food bags. Either that or I have no idea why we have 50 something odd bags that say "Donate to Lane County." Marc is a dick, everyone who works there knows it, but aside from the deli and bakery throwaways, we do help out charity places.

Also, wait, you just sent the poor guy back out into the cold? If you knew him, the least you could have done is offer him a place to crash for the night.

I meant that you might as well as had given him the 75 cents because it is irrelevant and I think I went into a stupid rant for the moment. I really meant to give a neutral opinion but I failed.

Also, I had to let the guy back into the cold because my parents never liked him and if they were to come back to see him here there would be hell. I wish I could've let him stay.

75 cents at the price of my job? No thank you. He could have easily paid the 75 cents. He handed me a $5 bill to pay for it.

That's horribly flawed logic anyhow. If 75 cent isn't relevant, then you assume anything under a dollar is fine. So if we get thousands of customers a day and let every one of them not have to pay 75 cents because it's irrelevant, think of how much money that turns into? Really, think that out for a moment then come back and say 75 cents isn't relevant to a company.

This post has been edited by MintyLimeGreen: 13 December 2011 - 02:00 AM

Buddy1006, on 13 December 2011 - 12:41 AM, said:

Not necessarily. All that really implies is that he spent all of his money on something else and now he's hungry. I agree with Carcharocles; I too would sooner go hungry than beg strangers for money. Unless you are helping out a friend, I'd stick with donating to food kitchens and charities.

Adawg99, on 13 December 2011 - 11:53 AM, said:

Insisting that someone only spend their income on food or you won't help them isn't fair. It's one of the biggest reasons I hate the Salvation Army. The fact is, people get in over their heads, and while poor money management is immature and irresponsible, you can't expect anyone to be responsible 100% of the time. See, everybody makes bad financial decisions. Generally, the more money you have, the less these decisions hurt you--unless you really fuck up, that is. Someone in my situation can suffer for a whole month over a miscommunication. To put it simply, poor money management skills aren't an excuse to punish the poor. If a guy came up asking for money for a bus ticket, like they do so often, I'd refuse. A man walking up to me and asking for a bite of a sandwich isn't going to get turned down, and unless you have a damn good reason for it like Minty did, you're just a hypocritical ass in refusing them. At least remember that someone who is asking for a hot dog isn't going to trade that hot dog in for some crack or a Bud Lite.

Car has a point. My boyfriend is terrible with money management so I have to handle the finances usually, but I've screwed up a few times when I wanted something I didn't necessarily need. Usually when I want to buy him something. So I'm guilty of being an idiot at times too.

As for poor people, yes, I want to help them. I'm currently not in any situation to give money, but I volunteer when I do have time. Even being around the homeless extensively, it's still hard to tell who's needy and who's abusing. Usually anytime someone says they're hungry, I'll offer to buy them food if I can. If they turn me down, then that's their problem. It's really the easiest way to determine who's who.

I had leftover food from Olive Garden once and this lady begged me for some money to eat. I seriously just picked at my meal, I had more than enough leftover for her to make a fine meal. I gave it to her then walked back inside to say goodbye to my friend who was working in another store (At a mall.) and came back about 20 minutes later. All the food was thrown in the garbage and hadn't been touched. Sad, because that food went to waste.

I have helped a few people who were genuinely thankful. In fact, back in my hometown, a well known homeless guy asked me to buy him something from the nearby Taco Bell. I bought him a few things and a drink and went home. Several months later, I find out the man got a job and became the head of a well known local company. I ran into him on the street again and he insisted I come with him for a moment. He walked up to an ATM machine and got out $200 and handed it to me. I said I couldn't accept, but he insisted telling me he always repays a kindness done to him no matter how small and that he never forgets the faces of the people who helped him in his time of need.

Another time a woman and her two children were asking for food. I bought them some food from the nearby store's deli and the mother cried and hugged me. Her children thanked me as well. It felt really nice knowing they really needed help.

So in my experience, people asking for food or blankets are usually legit. People who ask for money for food or money in general, are normally not.

This post has been edited by MintyLimeGreen: 13 December 2011 - 09:02 PM

I registered purely to respond to this topic.

"What I'm asking here is, do you think it's morally wrong for big companies to just throw out food?"

It's not really a moral issue. It's a legal one. Companies can't legally sell, give, trade or barter outdated, out of temp, or otherwise damaged foods. A company can, in fact, lose it's license if it's caught doing that. Also, giving away food that's past dated can open the company up to legal liability. If a customer were to get sick on food sold or given away knowingly past it's expiration date then the company would be legally responsible. Moreover, you as the employee, depending on the jurisdiction, could also be held liable for knowingly selling or giving away expired food.

In your particular case, the man wanted less than three dollars worth of chicken tenders. You did exactly right in selling him less than three dollars worth of saleable chicken tenders. However, you should not have argued with him. You should have pointed out that, if he indeed want the remaining chicken tender, that you would be obligated to sell it to him; or otherwise, it would be culled at the end of the shift. It wasn't a point that could be debated, it's simply standard practice; and if the man wanted to file some sort of formal complaint, he should take his objections to the customer service counter.