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I know a relative with this condition, and needless to say, every experience I've had with him has been unpleasant. I've tried to disconnect myself from him over the years because I don't like putting up with it, but others tell me I should be morally obligated to do so. Does that make me a bad person?

This post has been edited by Marshmallow: 24 December 2011 - 09:01 AM

it really depends on the person, because almost every person is affected by it in a different way. there are global symptoms, but they are all a bit different. if you are uncomfortable around them, why not avoid them?

my nephew is autistic, and he is the most wonderful little boy ever.

This post has been edited by Chris: 24 December 2011 - 09:03 AM

Because he comes to ME. And only uses me for his own convenience. He's flat out told me that he hates me many times in the past, and yet others expect me to turn a blind eye to that because he doesn't understand his words. What bullshit.

This post has been edited by Marshmallow: 24 December 2011 - 09:13 AM

Well mental illness requires some amount of leniency as it is not something you can really control. Though that does not mean just accepting everything until the end of time. Depends on what you mean by unpleasant. If he is just difficult to talk to and it makes it uncomfortable for you then you should at the very least try to get along. If he is just being a jerk forgive him every now and again, but you are well within your rights to ignore him. Just because you have mental problems doesn't mean you can't just be a horrible person.

Also it doesn't make you a bad person everyone gets fed up every now and again. The fact you are questioning if you did the right thing shows you have good in you and are willing to change based on what you determine is right.

Edit: Ya I just read your post. Fuck him.

This post has been edited by Rawrdinosaur: 24 December 2011 - 09:15 AM

Definitely a dilemma. While autism is unfortunate, I think people sometimes forget the effect it has on the people around the autistic. It can be difficult putting up with someone, and in the long run, putting up with someone can breed contempt and hatred, and that usually doesn't end well.

And if he only comes to you for his own convenience, as if he does it out of selfishness and greed, then you shouldn't feel guilty about distancing yourself. I know that autism can sometimes cause a person to do and act in harsh ways without realizing it, or even caring about it, and that is unfortunate, but what are you supposed to do? Are you supposed to let this person take advantage of you, and just use his mental disability as an excuse?

And if you want to get really deep into things, moral obligations don't really mean a thing. But yeah, nobody wants to get that deep into things, so I'll just stop.

This post has been edited by Meowth: 24 December 2011 - 09:16 AM

I'm no parent, so call me ignorant on the subject, but to me, raising that type of child doesn't seem like a responsibility worth bearing when you could face other opportunities in life in the same amount of time. I've seen parents try and it doesn't work. So what's there to show for it?

This post has been edited by Marshmallow: 24 December 2011 - 09:25 AM

@Marshmallow

What are they suppose to do? They can't just say this one is defective and give it back. Many children with autism turn out just fine depending on the severity of it.

I don't know. The fact that a choice has to be made is scary enough to think about.

Rawrdinosaur, on 24 December 2011 - 09:25 AM, said:

Put it up for adoption once you realize what it is. Nature will take over from there while you try to create offspring that isn't so much of a financial parasite.

I'm sure there are others who'd be more willing anyway...

Jerk, on 24 December 2011 - 09:29 AM, said:

Ya you could do that too.

Many parents love their children regardless of how messed up they are. It's not like there is not point in parenting a child with a mental disorder how well you parent still matters. They are still human and require attention and proper rules and what not. They can still be a functioning member of society with some faults.

When I say "nature," I mean "left to lick lead paint off the walls of a foster home."

I have a mild form of autism and if he's an ass hole then don't have anything to do with him I wouldn't.

God damn it jerk, you beat me to posting that.

I'm a behavior interventionist and work specifically with autistic and general special needs children. The children I work with vary on the spectrum, and for many, some don't appear to have typical symptoms at all. I myself didn't know too much about it before I got my B.A. in psychology as well as had my specific training for applied behavior analysis, the main method we use to work with our kids. If you don't understand the condition or are very familiar with it at all, it's absolutely normal to feel uncomfortable and even not know how to react to people who are autistic.

For one, AUTISM IS NOT A MENTAL DISORDER ILLNESS. It's more of a delayed development disorder that results in delays of certain areas, such as speech and learning. As a result, many individuals have more of a difficult time expressing their needs, themselves, and interacting socially with others compared to typical children. I'm not sure how old your cousin is or where he is on the spectrum, but I think it would be great to speak to your aunt/uncle about how to interact with him. He may have conscious awareness of what he says and does, but like I've mentioned, in terms of development, it is not typical like you or me.

I deal with children, who, out of frustration, hit me, bite me, throw things at me, yell at me, say hurtful things, and throw numerous tantrums (they're young children, but the company I work for works with individuals of all ages) - I can assure you that despite all that, they are some of the most wonderful children I have ever came to know. They can be very sweet and affectionate, and don't act out due to malice or intending to cause harm. People with autism, if anything, need much more understanding and patience. Overall, I don't think you're totally obligated to deal with it, but I would personally recommend trying to understand his condition as well as speaking to his parents as they would most likely know the best way to interact with him so you don't feel the way you do now. There are tons of resources online and you can even speak to doctors about it, obviously. I personally have relatives, cousins, too, with a variety of disorders, some autistic and others with mental disorders, so I know first hand how important it can be to try to understand. It's the most difficult for the parents than anything else.

--EDIT: To add more of what I do specifically, I help teach children basic things like colors, shapes, letters, reading, writing, and a TON of social aspects. I attempt to modify maladaptive behavior and try to teach children functional ways to communicate, like using their words (instead of harming or having tantrums) and acting appropriately when they are angry, sad, upset, or even happy. I also help children with basic life skills, like eating, potty training, getting dressed, and how to play properly. A lot of the programs I participate is play-based, which focuses mostly on social interactions. I love my job

This post has been edited by Aika: 24 December 2011 - 11:45 PM

Aika, on 24 December 2011 - 11:28 PM, said:

To me, that falls in the category of mental disorder. A problem that stops or slows things down with the brain?

Marshmallow, on 24 December 2011 - 09:09 AM, said:

No one is obligated to help someone else with autism, you should do it only when you want to. It's your life, and you can't spend it being miserable just because people think you should.

This post has been edited by falconboy99: 24 December 2011 - 11:44 PM

Falcon - I meant specifically to illness, not disorder, my bad! There is a difference between the two, so yes, it is a disorder of some sort, but NOT a mental illness. Psychology gets pretty confusing with its classifications

This post has been edited by Aika: 24 December 2011 - 11:48 PM

I guess it does...

I remember that there was this group of autistic people who insisted that autism was not a disorder, and not even what Aika described. They labeled it as a "different mindset," as though they were just different kinds of people, not any less adept at anything.

Autistic people who take that approach should just be treated like normal people.

And... any autistic person who pulls out the "I'm autistic, it's okay that I act this way" card directly contradicts his or herself. Because autistic people are supposedly unaware of their actions, so they wouldn't know that it was wrong.

Either way, treat them like a normal person (or try your best) and see how they react. Call them out on it when they're being unkind. Don't give them any special treatment--neither good nor bad.

I've never dealt with anyone with more than aspergers, but it works just fine if I treat them normally. As far as I know, autism is just a step up from that condition.

EDIT: Scratch that, I knew someone with Autism. And he was one of the creepiest, most self-unaware people I've ever known. He hit on any girl that moved and said suggestive things to all of them, even people years younger than him. How much of that is due to autism... I don't know. But I'm pretty sure he hit on Toffee at least once... At least he left.

This post has been edited by Lux Aeterna: 24 December 2011 - 11:53 PM

Wow, that's pretty terrible, Lux! I've never met or worked with anyone like that, using their autism to justify what they do. That's sad :\

Also, to clarify, autistic people aren't necessarily unaware of everything they do. They are just not as aware and don't always pick up the same social cues as everyone else. But I agree, ideally, you want to be able to treat those with autism as you would with everyone else. Part of my job is helping children until they get to that point. Of course, each individual is different, and for some, they may always require certain types of attention.

This post has been edited by Aika: 24 December 2011 - 11:56 PM

Aika, on 24 December 2011 - 11:56 PM, said:

You see, there was this one kid I knew at a summer thing that I went to for a weak. My roommate's little bro had a lot of issues. On the first day he literally said "I have problems okay I HAVE PROBLEMS!" Any time things didn't go his way he'd scream and cry. He was also not very sociable in general, even if he was friendly. That was the funny thing about the kid--besides his brother, he was nice to everyone and wouldn't hurt a fly. But he was so sensitive, and every time he was called out on it he used his "I have problems" excuse. The only thing keeping me from calling that autism is I have no proof that it was. But he had /something/, he was right about that much.

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My experience with people with mental disorders is they're generally nicer than the average person, which is funny since they're so horribly susceptible to random bouts of violent catharsis. But they remind me of, well, myself. I don't have any mental disorders (as far as I know), but I used to be so shy that I couldn't pick up on many social cues because I hardly interacted with anyone outside of my ten or so friends. I'm a lot better with being social now, but back then, it was hard.

In a way, it makes me sympathize with them, because I know what it feels like to have trouble socializing. In another, it removes part of my sympathy, because I /did/ learn how to be social (with a wide circle of friends now and whatnot) and I think so can they. Unless in the most severe cases, as you said, Aika.

... Mental detriments/changes are unfortunate in a way, but, well, some of the most helpful people in the world supposedly had disorders. Einstein, for example...

@Aika

I can effectively say I've entered a thread on this board and learned something - and even without hostility, pretentiousness, or ridiculous opinions that seem to go along with everything.

Me too, and the only thing that would cancel out this learning experience is that someone turns this thread into the new Random Chat.

This post has been edited by falconboy99: 25 December 2011 - 01:04 AM

If you want to learn about autism, Random Chat isn't a terrible case study on that. I mean, yes, it is terrible but not insofar as you want to learn about people who have serious learning and social development disorders. But it was deleted two months before you even joined, so how the fuck would you know what you're implying by bringing it up in conversation?

Personally I would tell that person that you don't appreciate their taking advantage of you. If that person continues to badger you, politely tell them to shove off.

"People with autism, if anything, need much more understanding and patience."

Nah, we don't.

"People with autism, if anything, need to be held underwater until they stop moving."

There we go. And I mean real autism, not that fake "OMG I GOTS ASSBURGERS GUYS PITY ME PLEEEEASE" shit.

Jerk made this thread worth the read.

What is the difference between being an involuntarily unpleasant person due to autism and being an involuntarily unpleasant person due to your upbringing and inbuilt understanding of social mores?

Is it fair to avoid and criticise either or both or none?

Pretty much, but, that is rather superficial, only considering their actions instead of their motives. Unfortunately, when people do consider motives, they choose to focus on the ones that cannot be helped.
I've never seen retarded animals, because maybe they aren't let to survive past baby stage. Or maybe animals are too genetically diverse to ever create retarded offspring, or animals are too naturally stupid to discern the defects from the normal ones.

In response to Marshmallow's query, I wouldn't think less of you (although I would think more of you if you did, like I do of Aika)

I'd rather have a cat or dog as a companion than an offending autistic.

SuitCase, on 25 December 2011 - 11:18 AM, said:

That's pretty much my train of thought. There's autism, where people break down functionally (I have seen and even done volunteer work babysitting them so their parents could take a Saturday night off) and then there's people who are just terrible with social skills and get the label "autism" because something must be functionally wrong with them to explain why they develop so slowly in certain areas like social skills. I'm inclined to say "fuck it": I'm not obligated to deal with someone who understands enough about how he's being treated to use that to his advantage. Marshmallow's cousin should be drowned like a bag of puppies.

"High-Functioning Autism" isn't autism, it's someone being the fucking failure they were born to be.

A lot of autistic people don't have a very broad emotional spectrum, their brains are overactive. If you couldn't stop thinking about the way your shirt and pants feel against your skin I'm sure you'd flip shit when even more stimulation was piled on top of you. I disagree with whoever said autism isn't a mental illness, it is. A lot of autism spectrum disorders literally change the physiology of the brain. There's no way that isn't classified as a mental illness/disorder.

I also agree with the people who state that autistic people who are 'high functioning' should at least have some responsibility for their own actions. Everyone has stuff wrong with them that they have to deal with and overcome, and if you have the cognitive ability to recognize your own faults then you should be held accountable for them if you continually fail to manage them in any way. I know it's difficult to be autistic, many of them can't even properly experience empathy (like a sociopath). This makes it especially hard for them to even consider attempting to change themselves for the betterment of other people. Why do you think autistic people can't look others in the eyes? The part of their brain responsible for reading other people's faces, and emotional context, doesn't work well at all. There is a treatment where they magnetically alter the region of their brain that is overreactive, enabling the brain to rewire itself. Some forms of autism can be 'cured' this way. These people end up changing in a way that would be analogous to a colorblind person suddenly seeing a vibrant rainbow in all it's glory.

The severity of autism is also affected by how they're treated as children. A lot of them become savants if they're challenged properly, but in many cases there is a reverse of growth, and they become mentally incapacitated. I feel like I can relate to autistic people on a lot of levels, I was misunderstood as a kid and had some developmental problems, I was punished often for being hyper active and not paying attention. But I got diagnosed with severe ADHD combined type (which some people are starting to claim is a low spectrum autism disorder), and I got invited into SEARCH (which is like AP classes for elementary and middle school kids) so I lucked out. And I've definitely developed some coping mechanisms for my disorder, but if your a close friend of mine it's still very apparent. I tend to interrupt people mid sentence, and be loud and easily excitable when I'm comfortable (I can be very reclusive on the other side though). My brain is almost physically incapable of keeping my fucking mouth shut when I have something I want to say.

Where was I going with this...shit...

Jerk, on 25 December 2011 - 03:16 AM, said:

Think, Professor Layton. Think.

This post has been edited by falconboy99: 28 December 2011 - 04:32 AM

LEGO YEEEAAAAAHHHHH

Wait what thread is this?

Grass, on 28 December 2011 - 04:51 AM, said:

....REALLY don't think he needed to be brought up in what was MOSTLY a serious conversation.

Is that guy autistic? Looks like your average man-child to me.

skmojo, on 29 December 2011 - 12:00 PM, said:

He is autistic, and that is as far as we will talk about him.

I thought he had aspergers.

He is the spokesman for autism since the rest of its victims just mumble incoherently until you try to take away their juice box.

DavCube, on 29 December 2011 - 04:21 PM, said:

I did know that already, but thanks.

(Jerk has accidentally fucked up this post.)

Shit, sorry. I accidentally hit the edit button reaching for reply. I'm the one who said "gas them'" it was supposed to be a new post.

My bad.

Jerk, on 31 May 2012 - 10:27 AM, said:

It's ok

My answer to your rhetorical question was "gas them."

I have autism and i'm quite disturbed by this whole topic so far.
Because as far as i know this topic has mutated from 'what should i do' into LOL people with autism are retards!

People with autism are not retards, they think different, and if someone with autism in being a fuckin weirdo then that has nothing to do with autism, thats just because they are a fuckin wierdo.
People without autism can be weird too, being a retard or an asshole is not tied to autism in any way.
Sure they are not very social, most of the time social skills are traded in for other things, whatever that may be, languages, math whatever.

Other people are not better than autistics in any way.
Anyone who thinks different is fuckin selfish.

Oh and feel free to hate me, please.
Shower me with hateful comments.
It pleases me to know that there are still people who are more stupid than the people at my school,
and i'm sure they will be pleased too.

This post has been edited by Ferrox: 12 June 2012 - 04:53 PM

Ferrox, on 12 June 2012 - 04:50 PM, said:

No, only the dumb people are making autistic jokes. Or, well, they don't mean it seriously, although they're not taking into account that some people will take it seriously. But then again, I'm not sure if they care.

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Ah, you're taking the good old "not disabled, just differently-abled" approach. By the literal definition--they are not retards... Because one who is retarded is mentally handicapped--and mentally handicapped means "limited intellectual functions." So no, most autistic people aren't retards. They're not handicapped intellectually... The main characteristics of autism are impaired communication, excessive rigidity, and emotional detachment. In other words, autistic people are generally impaired socially.

But just as a dyslexic person can learn how to read, an autistic person can learn how to socialize (unless it's very extreme). So really, autism is ultimately an issue in the development, not actual ability.

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Except that's not always the case. As I just stated, autism is generally an impairment of social skills, and if those skills are not worked on, then they will act in such ways that will cause them to act just as a "weirdo" or "asshole" would be, regardless of intention. If it's characteristic of them to act that way, then they're an "asshole" or "weirdo," regardless of the reason. Autism can catalyze these actions--although to say "all autistic people act like assholes" is grossly inaccurate and bigoted. But it's also inaccurate to say that autism never causes people to act in a socially undesirable/slow way, since that's part of what autism entails.

But please don't just throw a word like "retard" around after you just got done saying how people were misusing the word. It partially subverts your argument.

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Which, again, comes with the territory of being autistic (usually). But you basically just furthered my own argument with the "traded social skills" comment. A lack of social skills has a tendency to cause someone to act unpleasant, intentionally or not.

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I don't think anyone in this thread was seriously claiming that. But if anyone was, then I wouldn't call them selfish--just provincial and stupid.

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I won't tell you how to dispense with your anger, but I doubt passive-aggressive comments such as these will soothe your frustration.

This post has been edited by Lux Aeterna: 12 June 2012 - 05:33 PM

to be honest, if i was an autist, i'd milk it for all its worth

you remember those kids in highschool who always got awards for doing jack shit? That'd be me, but i'd also demand candy and blowjobs for me and my tard 't-money' crew

Jerk's just jelly that he'll never get pity hugs from bangin' hot tard wranglers

Pocky, on 12 June 2012 - 06:13 PM, said:

Also chris-chan is kahwhy desoo, leave him alone

Ferrox, on 12 June 2012 - 04:50 PM, said:

Ferrox, on 12 June 2012 - 04:50 PM, said:

Functionally speaking: yes, they are.

High-functioning autism is bullshit. It's a diagnosis to explain why your child is stupid and has no friends.