I have not contradicted myself, I think getting various piercings and tattoos are dumb as hell, but if the person has chosen to do it and knows full-well what they're gonna do, then power to them. Though that's a lot less extreme that mutilating your genitals.
- 12 January 2012 - 04:58 PM
Keeping pointless religious traditions of mutilating themselves because "it's religion" is wrong and encourages people to do bad things to themselves.
This post has been edited by Itu: 12 January 2012 - 05:17 PM
- 12 January 2012 - 05:16 PM
Also, just throwing in to Taeshi that I wasn't implying she contradicted herself at all.
This post has been edited by Bourbon: 12 January 2012 - 05:23 PM
- 12 January 2012 - 05:22 PM
The latter has a problem because religion made them take a stupid choice, but you're not going against anyone's immediate right, I guess. Unless it's frowned upon not to do it, then it's religion pushing itself and doing harm, and people going with it to create social pressure against the freedom of someone.
It's not really which one is worse, the point in question is that pointless religious traditions that consist in harm being done should not exist.
This post has been edited by Itu: 12 January 2012 - 05:27 PM
- 12 January 2012 - 05:25 PM
- 12 January 2012 - 05:36 PM
The latter, worded like you just did, is not going against their right because they're giving consent, so worded like you just did the first would be worse.
The problem in adult circumcision where it's the norm arises when the person does not want to give consent. Then they push religion on them, and attack their freedom of choice with social pressure. I couldn't say wether this or the first one is worse.
This post has been edited by Itu: 12 January 2012 - 05:41 PM
- 12 January 2012 - 05:40 PM
- 12 January 2012 - 05:41 PM
This post has been edited by Rex: 12 January 2012 - 05:43 PM
- 12 January 2012 - 05:43 PM
Refer to previous examples on stoning heretics, branding infants with fiery metals and others made to illustrate the point.
This post has been edited by Itu: 12 January 2012 - 05:50 PM
- 12 January 2012 - 05:43 PM
Want to be able to fap better? Don't get circumcised. It's like your own personal cock sleeve for all you foreveralones.
Want to last longer during any kind of sex? Might be harder if you still have your foreskin.
But whatever works man. I personally think cut looks better and cleaner than the sandworm. And think about it this way if you're not religious. On the off chance that God DOES exist, well at least you got your penis going for you lol. Better to be safe than sorry.
- 12 January 2012 - 05:46 PM
- 12 January 2012 - 05:49 PM
@Rex: What are you saying now? That somehow these traditions are okay because they will never cease to exist so every argument against them is moot, thus letting them to continue to exist forever?
- 12 January 2012 - 05:51 PM
I really do understand your point, I do. These babies have no choice in the matter and its wrong to impose your beliefs onto somebody.
This post has been edited by Rex: 12 January 2012 - 06:15 PM
- 12 January 2012 - 06:13 PM
- 12 January 2012 - 06:14 PM
Well, the Royal Dutch Medical Association in Netherlands holds the position that non-therapeutic male circumcision conflicts with the child's right to autonomy and physical integrity, and suggests it should be outlawed as much as female genital mutilation (female circumcision) which is widely outlawed, and viewed as a barbaric criminal offense except in some places.
What I'm trying to say here is that it's important to argue against these kind of things because they restrict our freedom and the freedom of the people. Things like slavery and the inquisition have been pushed back because of people arguing against them and not plainly thinking "it's done by a major world power, there's no chance we can take it down". And it IS possible to do it.
This post has been edited by Itu: 12 January 2012 - 07:10 PM
- 12 January 2012 - 06:20 PM
I'm fairly neutral on the issue, and see it at as a personal choice. I can see both sides of the issue. It's no surprise that the decision has to be made sometime, though. Parents enforce a lot of things on their kids, like where they will live, what they will eat, where they will go to school, and maybe even beyond that. Those things I feel have more long lasting effects than circumcision. I'm obviously not a guy though so I can't say that with 100% conviction, only based on what my male friends (circumcised and uncircumcised) have said. From what I've seen, my male friends are pretty content with the way they are.
And religion? I think it's a very ethnocentric thing to criticize one's religion and culture. What we perceive is wrong and right is based on our society's culture values and beliefs. We only see certain practices as wrong because of our own perspective. If we were raised in a different society, OF COURSE we would believe otherwise. Some societies eat horses, dogs, cats, and various other animals. Some societies think we're disgusting for eating beef, pork, or seafood. So on and so forth. Does that mean I agree with what other cultures do in terms of genital mutilation or whatever ritual? Of course not. Some cultures go through great extremes for certain practices. Sometimes it's a rite of passage. I feel terrible for what people go through sometimes, but I know also it's not my place to tell them that what they're doing is wrong. Their practices have been done for ages, and are so deeply rooted that it would take such a long time to fight and change it. I think it's possible, though. But if you think it's the right thing to fight for, then go for it. We have the freedom to, but it of course comes with risks. There are many practices out there that I feel are worth fighting for, like those young girls that get forced into marriages at such a young age, and being practically raped just so they can have literally dozens of children. They live their lives totally bound to their husband, with no will of their own, even if they have greater ambitions like going to school or having a profession. That would be a discussion for another time.
If anyone is that strongly against circumcision, then they should do whatever it is in their power to fight it. There are already groups doing such things.
- 12 January 2012 - 09:36 PM
Nor would I make any exception for religion. Over the last couple of centuries, humankind has made great progress in eliminating many harmful traditions around the globe, for example slavery, torture, foot binding, castration, sati, etc. Admittedly in some areas we still have a ways to go, but that doesn't mean we can't always strive to improve. For instance, it should never be needed or required to hurt others in the name of religion. These practices can be replaced with alternative, kinder ones. As an example, some Jewish people practice the brit shalom in place of the brit milah.
- 12 January 2012 - 11:54 PM
- 13 January 2012 - 02:38 AM
Some of us like our circumcised penises. And some of us like it that we were too young to remember it. I for one am glad that I was circumcised, AND at an age where I remember nothing of it.
- 13 January 2012 - 03:56 AM
- 13 January 2012 - 04:00 AM
As for female circumcision, just, fucking no.
Also, Christians aren't mindless cultists out to destroy everyone's dick. I'm not religious, but I still know that there's an entire letter in the bible talking specifically about how circumcision is vandalizing god's image of mankind. Religion is no excuse.
- 13 January 2012 - 06:22 AM
- 13 January 2012 - 10:40 AM
a little something I came across in my research. I don't know if they'll be a viable procedure for complete regeneration any time soon, though once there is, I know what I'm doing.
- 13 January 2012 - 10:34 PM