Bittersweet Candy Bowl Forums

I was eagerly awaiting the recent Apple keynote where they announced iBooks 2, iBooks Author and iPad Textbooks. I was hoping there'd be some kind of interesting reworking of iBooks that would be conducive to webcomics, but that's not really the case. (Diesel Sweeties not withstanding.)

The reason I'm looking around is that there's all these ways to distribute webcomics beyond the traditional web:

• Printed books
  
• Mobile web sites
  
• PDFs, EPUBs and .mobi files for Kindles, iPads and other tablet\e-reader devices
  
• iBooks interactive books
  
• Mobile apps

We have the first two covered.

A lot of people have asked if we have a PDF or Kindle version of the first book coming out, and I've been considering the options. We need to be on e-ink Kindles and Nooks, so I need to tune a PDF to the Kindle display. I plan on doing this when mine finally arrives. We would sell the PDF download of Volume One on the store, along with a colour version for the Kindle Fire and iPad.

The iBooks interactive books don't seem very compelling to me unless you write a webcomic specifically for the format. So we'll skip those.

Finally, the idea of making an app is interesting to me personally, and might be a good way to either promote the comic or make a small amount of money. I don't know how to make one, but it looks like you can hire people to do it for a thousand dollars or so. Considering so many of our site visitors are on iOS, here's the idea:

A Bittersweet Candy Bowl app for iPhone, iPod touch and iPad. If it wasn't free, it'd cost $2.99, $4.99 or $9.99. You'd download it because it offers:

• Access to the full archives of the site in an optimised UI that's easy to browse around
  
• Automatic tracking of archive binges, where it remembers your place, syncs between all iOS devices that use the app, and offers some cute stats
  
• Push notifications when a new page goes up
  
• A simple Candybooru viewer
  
• Built-in exclusive wallpaper
  
• A bonus one-off app-only chapter? (I dunno)

Here's the mockup:



Here's a pretty complete specification document I wrote for it.

I don't know if this is compelling, though. Fundamentally, the app would be more of an optimised website viewer than it would be an ebook, and even though that means you get more than a Volume One PDF, I think the perceived value would be lower. So it might be worth giving it out for free, as the bullet list above might not be so compelling.

However, I feel that the perceived value would be higher if the app included the pages and didn't stream them from the site. It'd mean the app would be about 400mb in size, but maybe people would pay $4.99 or $9.99 for it? Free app, $4.99 in-app purchase to download the pages into the cache?

So I guess I'm interested in whether this seems like a compelling app or a useless frivolity, especially to those of you who are interested in a PDF version and would compare it to that. Again, if we did sell a PDF of Volume One, what should it cost? And if we did an app, how would it be priced?

droid does

This post has been edited by whf: 25 January 2012 - 05:52 PM

Ha ha, nobody gives a shit! If this is the case, then maybe this was a masturbatory exercise for someone who loves the idea of designing interfaces.

Now wait a minute, this was posted in the forums at a non-optimal time. Give people a little time to reply !

Honestly I would be very interested in this if it BCB was made an app. Although, why would there be a Candybooru section and not a forum one? To add the Candybooru feature seems a bit strange to me. Yes, the comic has strong ties to its fan base, so why not include the forum lurkers instead of the fan artists, for I would think the forumites are a bit more numerous? I am not a coder so I do not know how complicated that process is, and then I guess it would be very similar to just viewing the web page on Safari on the devices (as I am doing now, actually). So my personal input would be to scratch the Candybooru idea and make the app, if it is made, just about the comic. I can see the cons in this, for it might limit revenue of fan art, but that is a big if. People will still adore the comic, especially for the app would probably make it a bit more accessible.

I would definitely download the app, but in all honesty, I would not be willing to spend more than 2 bucks for it, for I can just as easily access the comic via Safari on my iPad. Personally I would think you should give it for free since the comic is for free, but I understand the demands of coding and that creating and putting the app on the market might be costly as well. If you need a tester, I would be honored to take up the task .

As for the PDF, I see no appeal in that. Instead of having it on an Internet page, it is on a download somewhere on the desktop. The only benefit is being able to read without Internet, but these days when is there ever a scenario where one would be without Internet?

Are there any web comic viewing apps that you can incorporate the comic with, or is that too ideal?

I would suppose the advantages of having it in a PDF, or synced down into an app is for situations where internet is slow, where data caps are limiting and you're doing a lot of reading, or on planes.

I am not interested in throwing in a crappy web view that goes to the forum. It'd be native or nothing. I do have some interest in what you say about the Candybooru feature being useless, though. I figured it'd be an added feature that's not a lot of work, and facilitates the kind of "I want to use that as my wallpaper!" stuff that people do a lot. But I could remove it. At that point, though, the app gets kind of spartan. Shouldn't it have more features than that?

A pdf would be cool, but I bet it'd be a massive one.

I can't speak as to apps, since I don't download that kind of stuff. But I'd say a PDF version of the first BCB book would probably be priced at, oh, twenty bucks or so? For that amount, you get 600 pages of Taeshi's lovely artwork that you can carry around with you. The only downside might be the massive download required? I don't know, is 400 MB of graphics a stretch for a Kindle to download as opposed to the average text-only novel? Or would it be meant to be downloaded on a computer and then transferred to a Kindle? I don't know much about Kindles, really...

I made a pdf of Bittersweet Candy Bowl up until Chapter 68. It was surprisingly easy to do. 150 mb. Eh?
Free File Hosting - Online Storage; Upload Mp3, Videos, Music. Backup Files
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BCB.pdf

This post has been edited by falconboy99: 26 January 2012 - 05:48 AM

If I wanted to to be really low tech about it couldn't I just save every single image to my phone and get the same experience as a pdf?

That would take forever unless you used an app.

So yes. In that case I would never purchase an ebook or the like.

What if it took you 5 minutes to download?

Seeing as I just got a Fire for Christmas and I haven't yet purchased the BCB book, the idea of an ebook version sounds very appealing. I'd purchase it day one. As for an app, I'm not sure how many people would download it if it didn't include a cache seeing as one could just as easily go to the site so, I'd recommend charging for it but, including the archives in the app so you wouldn't have to be connected to view comics.

Mikaro, on 26 January 2012 - 06:05 AM, said:

Um... What format do you prefer?

My phone currently gets decent internet service so unless I'm in the middle of a field I could read the entire comic using my phones web browser. And even then I'm not willing to pay money for the few ocassisions where it does not work well since I could just wait 5 minutes to leave the abandoned warehouse I am was in at the time. Also I'm cheep so I would probably be willing to just save all the images to my phone.

Rawrdinosaur, on 26 January 2012 - 06:07 AM, said:

Okay, so what if i told you i have all the images on my computer right now?

Well you see the thread is about paying for a supported one. So you sharing the files with me is diffrent then what the thread is talking about.

Oh. Right. Well, maybe instead of having to pay for it, you could just put ads in the app.

How would you have ads without a constant internet connection?

falconboy99, on 26 January 2012 - 06:06 AM, said:

I guess KF8 or .azw.

It's certainly not that hard to pull down all the images from the site and make your own PDF. You can print it out on your inkjet and staple it together, too.

I think the value of a PDF is "get a better experience and support the artist while doing so". Similar to the reason you'd buy a book. But it's certainly true that non-physical delivery of the comic is sometimes quite difficult to differentiate from the free, unlimited website.

Rawrdinosaur, on 26 January 2012 - 06:22 AM, said:

I think you don't need constant internet connection.

This post has been edited by falconboy99: 26 January 2012 - 02:37 PM

iAd and AdMob CPMs are pretty shitty. I would not put ads in the app because the amount they'd make would be miserable.

How about every 50 pages you put in an ad for your merchandise?

This post has been edited by falconboy99: 26 January 2012 - 03:28 PM

I won't comment on an e-readed or IPad app because I do not own either.
I do think a PDF would be a good idea. I would say a price between $20 and $30 seems about right. Although it is true that you could just download all the images yourself and create your own PDF, you would not get the extra art that is in the book.

I forgot about the extra art thing, but i consider 10$ a good price for a pdf.

I almost feel like a price of $10 would be an insult to the amount of work both Taeshi and SuitCase have put into the comic. But that might just be me.

What do other webcomic ebooks cost?

wacko, on 27 January 2012 - 04:41 PM, said:

If you charge more than $10(more like $3), people will just download it from megaupload rapidshare or something, and you saw how easy it was for me to make a pdf of BCB.

SuitCase, on 27 January 2012 - 05:20 PM, said:

I can't find any webcomics that have ebook versions.

Edit: 99 cents- The Far Reaches Webcomic - Ebooks Available on Lulu.com

This post has been edited by falconboy99: 28 January 2012 - 12:12 AM

help suitcase i have an android phone but i love the bcb what do i do

Clearly not everyone. Some people want to pay $20+.

In my opinion, that's too much - you can buy professional hardcover books for $15 or less on most eBook stores, and Amazon has done a lot to drive prices for major books down to $9.99 for Kindle.

My gut feeling is - $10 for access to your choice of eBook format for Volume One, and the same for Two and Three thereafter. But in a world where I do that, does it make sense to charge any less for an iOS app that contains everything? What if that app doesn't stream the files but contains them? Etc.

I would definitely buy BCB book for my kindle if it was available for it or the iphone app.

This post has been edited by Supah: 28 January 2012 - 12:45 AM

Goblins also sells ebooks. Each one is 4.99. For a comparison the soft cover versions cost 24.99 each. Link


The Oatmeal sells his ebook for 7.39. The signed soft cover cost 14.99. Link

It is only recently that ereaders became color so that might explain why there are so few of them.

How many pages are the Goblins books?

The second book is 168 pages. I don't know for sure how long the first one is, but Wikipedia says the second book is about twice as long as the first. They cost exactly the same.

The Oatmeal's book is 160 pages.

will there be an android app

I don't think any of the webcomics I read have PDF books for sale. However, in the past I've bought the yearly CDs of CRFH comics. One CD, with a year's worth of strips and some extra stuff, costs USD $15. I've also bought a customized flash drive shaped like a CRFH character, with the first ten years' material on it, for USD $50. So obviously I'm willing to pay to support comics I like. The mileage of other fans may vary.

I do think it's quite reasonable to have a PDF version of the 600 pages of Volume 1 for $20. I mean, it is 600 pages, and that includes the bonus content. You can transfer those PDF files anywhere, even to your other computers or portable devices. Taeshi's work is worth paying for the convenience, and twenty bucks is basically nothing if you like the comic that much. Easy to save up cash for that, and still a good deal cheaper than buying an actual BCB book.

If the iOS app comes with the same 600 pages, then charge the same amount. Otherwise, offer the app for a nominal amount.

But if you charge more than $20, people will pirate it, regardless of what Tasehi deserves.

falconboy99, this isn't really true. Most people who see an eBook priced higher than they can afford will just walk away and use the less convenient website to read. While some small proportion will say "I was prepared to pay $10, but now I will pay $20, and so now I will make my own PDF or search for it online!" I suspect it will be very few. The PDF should be priced so that it is an enticing buy for a wide number of people.

I do agree that $20 sounds like a lot, though. This is a difficult problem, though - I'd much rather people buy physical books for $49 than eBooks for $10. And so I'd have to consider lame things like timed exclusive content for the physical books, such as the one you're experiencing now if you're waiting to buy an eBook to see the exclusive stuff printed in the book.

the 1D, on 28 January 2012 - 03:31 AM, said:

Probably not for a number of reasons, but (if you are a useful foil) you can probably use yourself as an example: what is the most expensive app you have bought for your Android phone? Would you consider paying any more than the bare minimum I have suggested for a BCB app ($2.99)? Would you consider it at $9.99? Because the numbers say you probably wouldn't bother to pay a cent.

Of course, if someone wanted to make an Android app for free, sure! But I'm hoping for something that would pay for its own development somewhat quickly. I don't think Android would, because Android users are more likely to be cheap, and this is already a bit of a hard sell.

Well, there's no rush, is there? You could, for example, offer the PDF (with all bonus content included) for sale once you've sold 1,000 physical books. Or you could remove the bonus content and make it exclusive only to the physical books.

(For the record, I have bought a BCB book. I also downloaded the first 743 pages with the original dialogue, but that's neither here nor there. Does make for some useful comparison sometimes though.)

I don't even have those anymore.

I seriously did not see that even coming

A PDF is a nice idea, but personally I prefer hardcopy.

However, failing that, a PDF would always be a good second option, as I own an iPad, and do read off of it a lot.
I would consider it, but probably as a an alternative to the physical book.

As for costing, I can't really help you much there. It depends on how many pages would be on offer, though:

Quote

I definitely agree. Though I would prefer owning the physical book, the portability of a PDF is worth it in its own right. (Also because I do prefer not being connected to the internet to read it as well )

The interface demo looks fantastic. I would be all over that.

If the app only streams the pages, you could keep the price low which could increase your sales, and then potentially sell the same person an offline format (digital or physical). $4.99 sounds like a good price for a streaming app, though I don't know how much you would need to make to offset ad revenue lost from decreased site traffic.

The PDF would be good no matter what you plan on doing - automating how it's generated would be trivial.

I'd pay 10 dollars for the PDF copy of the book, and then read it on the device of my choice. Lots of devices have native PDF viewers which are actually quite good.

i'd buy it

for the i-pod sorry to make people confused

Starwatcher, on 12 February 2012 - 04:46 PM, said:

I'm pretty sure that the DRM of PDFs, assuming that Suitcase would pay/put enough effort to have it put on, is pretty crappy.

The DRM on anything, any device, any technology, any file format is crappy and often trivially circumventable. Some people see cracking DRM as a challenge per se which might theoretically mean that so-called "copy protection" in fact makes several otherwise uninterested people break it and copy an unprotected version.

I guess DRM for everything is crappy, but it keeps a lot of people from copying it and giving it to their friends since they're usually too lazy to google how to do crack it.

Calibre.

Nothing about Calibre is easy.