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Very often, when people are out of the work force permanently, their minds begin to show signs of deterioration. Due to nothing to focus on, no craft to excel at, the mind grows idle with the repetitive progress of a life not working. Once a man or woman retires, I have found often a quick decline in overall health, while those elder people still imployed (not necessarily in complex jobs; working at a register or waiting on tables more than suffice) keep up a healthy mindset, and stay physically in shape in comparison. Now, I am uncertain if this applies to people only in retirement as compared to unexpected unemployment. While the body and mind are still young-ish in most cases, other things factor in, like a feeling of rejection and failure from being laid off, coupled with remorse and nostalgia of the old job, plus repeated rejections for not being able to become re-employed. How long can a person last before giving up? Then settle in poor habits with the newfound "freedom", such as waking up at noon, staying up all night watching television, drinking on weekdays without consequence of a hangover the next day that can not be slept off. I am not saying that everyone becomes like this; my knowledge on the subject is kind of broad, hence why I posted this. I want to see what you all have to say. It frightens me, for it seems that once unemployment hits, both by choice or by unforeseen circumstances, that the will to life slowly disappears as well.

Getting to the point, my main question is does being out of the work force have any direct relationship to depression, or the deterioration of one's mind? Or is it the things caused by unemployment, such as the ability to sleep the day away and the lack on contributing to the world, the things that cause such signs? Or, am I entirely off base, if so, please do prove me wrong in the most brutal way possible.

If you're not working, you have more free time to yourself, and depending on how your mind works, you have more free time to think about how terrible and useless you are.

When you have things to do, you at least feel productive. Staying up all night and waking up late and getting drunk might be fun for a bit, but then you realise you're not really amounting to anything, so that's kind of where the depression starts.

Right on with it, Taeshi.

But let's not forget that being unemployed brings in tons of stress. Unemployment checks are a very small portion of what you earned, and when you're on disability it's even worse. You're going to wonder how to feed the family (or yourself), if you can make rent on time, if your lights will get shutoff, if your home will be foreclosed, if your car will be repossessed. It just goes on and on.

Depressions is often caused by stress, and guess what causes a lot of stress.

Stress usually implies you're also busy, like even though I might be stressed about something, it leads more to annoyance than blanket-depression. The worst thing you can do is nothing at all.

But what about scenarios in which the person unemployed is still secure financially? Perhaps the family had both spouses working, so the reduction of one paycheck coming in did not really effect the total house income all that greatly? Depression and its symptoms still hit in those cases.

That's why people usually pick up hobbies

Once again, it's because you're not doing anything. If you're unemployed and secure, that gives you more reason to laze around and do nothing, which brings back to my original point - for a lot of people, if they are left to their own thoughts and not distracted, they will just start thinking about how they haven't amounted to anything, how they're getting older and have nothing much to do, how they are worthless and that sort of thing.

That is why even though some people get really stressed at their jobs, there is still that sense of accomplishment having done something.

For example, I haven't worked in months. That has caused a shitton of depression, but the reason I haven't worked in months is because BCB is basically my job. I have trouble converting my mind to realising that drawing = a job. So for the longest time, and even now, I would sleep in and wake up and feel miserable because I feel I am not accomplishing anything, even though I would have spent the night before getting a lot of work done, like thumbnailing chapters and stuff.. whereas when I used to work at Subway, I'd be tired, but accomplished. I did something. I traveled out, I worked.

Oh, that adds another factor - sunlight. People need Vitamin D. Vitamin D is actually something that causes depression in people if they are deficient, and I found myself getting checked for it when I went to the doctor and I was heavily deficient in it because I never left the house. I'm sure that's not weird for other people, who probably stay at home all day playing games or doing nothing.

@Taeshi
Not that I don't agree with you, but what about people who work from home without getting any Vitamin D, do you think they would depressed as well?

That can be a factor, yes.

I figure people who work at home, if they don't factor the work they do at home as being productive (like me), are likely to get depressed. But I think if a person is just being weirdly depressed it can be the Vitamin D deficiency. My doctor told me he's dealt with cases where the vitamin D was the only factor towards the person's depression, and once they got out of the house and ate tablets, they were feeling a lot better. So depression is honestly case by case - and for some lucky people, it can be as easy to solve as just hanging out under a tree every few hours a day. I mean in a way that's being productive, showering, getting dressed, heading out, that sort of thing. That can instil a sense of activity in a person.

I guess I meant stress more like worry and anxiousness? Like, not being able to pay for anything or not having a guarantee of being able to keep your standard of living and whatnot.

I think there are a few more factors to the poorly defined concept of medical depression than a vitamin D deficiency

A lot of people don't understand that how much sunlight you get can be a major factor in how your biological clock works, which in turn can cause shifts in mood and cognitive function.

You need a certain amount of blue light entering your eyes to help you feel awake and productive (and sometimes this is produced artificially by staring at a computer screen for hours on end, which is why you don't get tired late at night).

This post has been edited by CaptainBaconMan: 15 February 2012 - 04:56 PM

I work while I go to grad school. I haven't been able to show up at work for two weeks because my health has tanked again. I am probably going to lose my job because of this and I'm almost certainly looking at another bout of hospitalization. Believe me when I say, I am under a lot of stress.

And I'm still not feeling sorry for myself. What's your excuse?

Ace: Even though as I said there have been cases where the person is depressed BECAUSE of the deficiency. Not everyone has clinical depression, but can show symptoms of it. And even the most normal person can suffer those symptoms if they're deficient in vitamins.

I work everyday of the week including weekends and i am in decent shape and I'm in school, and still I feel worthless and unaccomplished. I wonder why.

And I walk 6 miles outside everyday too.

Do you have any accomplishments that you want to achieve that you can't? Or personal issues? There are many reason people can be depressed.

I live the life of a happy person but nothing in my life makes me happy

Lvl 50 Fighter, on 15 February 2012 - 07:31 PM, said:

I really need to take psych already so I could help you, but even if I did your not really giving me enough imformation.

Also here's an article

Unemployment Fuels Depression Via Loss of Identity | Unemployed & Depressed | Job Search | LiveScience

This post has been edited by WTF: 15 February 2012 - 07:37 PM

I'm at work, posting on my phone, otherwise I would elaborate, but I have friends in that class and they can't help. So I stopped asking.

50: Depending on how long you've worked, you could also get depressed from working too much/sticking to the same routine. The same routine can just become boring or can even make you think it's nothing of accomplishment. Like, what's to be proud? You're just getting up and doing what you always do, it's the same depression that befalls a lot of people that work in the office, they have a job they get up for during the weekdays, but it's just the same grueling ordeal. They probably want to do more, or feel that they will be stuck in the same routine until they die.

and tbh, the same routine can blur the days, causing even more sadness. I mean, that was my life back in 2009, I was working about 6 days a week, getting up at 3:40 AM and leaving work at like 3 PM, only to crash and not get anything else done.. only to repeat the same process. It was depressing.

OR YOU COULD JUST BE LOOPY IN THE NOODLE, like genuine depression because people might find reasons for behaviour, but there are unfortunately those moods that cannot be cured because it links to a personality issue.

Probably just loopy in the noodle.

I like how you worded that.

Let's face it, pretty much every concept discussed here can be described as "stress." This is one of the major causes of depression (sadness, low self esteem, loss of interest and decreased ability to feel pleasure). Not everyone gets depression from stress though. Many people just cannot cope with a particular situation (for example, a busybody will have trouble with a mundane, repetitive lifestyle), and being unable to cope with a situation causes feelings of worthlessness and hopelessness. Repeated exposures to this situation will cause depression.

Many individuals with depression will also have a genetic predisposition to it; these individuals will likely suffer from recurrent depression throughout their lifetime.

Let's keep in mind that clinical depression is an affective disorder. While depression as a term is poorly defined, as a disorder it is very easy to identify. Contrary to popular belief, being diagnosed with depression when you're just sad is very rare; when depressed, the patient will also have poor self esteem, lack of interest in activities they normally enjoy and a decreased ability to feel pleasure. That's not to say that it's rare for someone to be misdiagnosed with depression, but the reason is more commonly that the depression itself is a symptom of a more complex affective disorder like bipolar disorder. It is also not rare for a person with depression to become psychotic; in this state, it can easily be misdiagnosed as schizophrenia. These disorders are often themselves triggered by stress, or they may be triggered by an environmental reaction.

So basically, there is no single reason why depression would occur in someone who is unemployed. It may be solely due to stress, or it may include a genetic factor, or it may occur as part of a more complex mental illness.

Fun fact: some people will have recurring depression in the same season year after year. This is a disorder known as "seasonal affective disorder." Rarely, a person may be consistently depressed every day for up to two years; this is known as Dysthymia. Dysthymia is less severe than clinical depression, but they do have an increased risk of developing the disorder.

This post has been edited by Carcharocles: 15 February 2012 - 09:29 PM

Fighter, have you considered the fact that you might just be an introvert? Introverts usually 'prefer' to, or just reflexively keep a neutral mood. I have problems being happy and enjoying things too, but it still happens. I've long since realized that their is a bias in our society towards being 'happy', which is code word for 'extrovertive' in most cases.


Also there is a correlation between intelligence and depression. So if you're smarter than most people you will be more depressed than most people (in most cases). But that's probably more about feeling alienated from society than anything.

This post has been edited by CaptainBaconMan: 15 February 2012 - 09:34 PM

I am an introvet, heavily introverted, also I'm an idiot, but anyway back to the topic this isn't my personal self help thread.

That sounds like introvert speak >8U

I'm an introvert, but I'm not an idiot. Nor am I depressed.

I am lazy though, and there are times when I totally loathe myself for not being able to get shit done because I am so good at procrastinating. So when I actually do stop fucking around on the internet and put my nose to the grindstone for a good while, then that really helps, because then I feel like I'm actually being useful for a change. Feeling accomplished at the end of the day is way better than sitting around hating yourself forever. So Taeshi does have a point about taking action and keeping yourself busy. It can help in a lot of situations, not only if you're feeling depressed. Like if you hate your belly fat, you can start a routine of walking every day, and doing so for a while will make you feel that you're actually starting to combat the problem. Similarly, if you find yourself unemployed, you can do more than just search for jobs a couple hours a day. You can take classes to upgrade your skills, or volunteer for charity, or even do those chores you've been putting off forever because you never had time to do them before. The key is to keep yourself occupied and make good use of your time. Although I do acknowledge that there are various causes of depression, so keeping busy won't necessarily help in every case of depression.

Hmm... I'm going to agree with what Taeshi said. When people have time to think, they have time to go "hm, so this could use improvement, and this... andthisandthisand--AH FUCK I'M A TERRIBLE PERSON"

Generally when left to think, people will run (or rather, think) around in circles. That'll lead them to a lack of complacency in a general situation, others, or indeed sometimes: themselves.

Well, that's a gradual effect, but I think there's also an immediate result: being out of work leads to a feeling of self-inferiority due to the fact that you aren't being productive--at least not in the most obvious way. So one might think that they're just a waste of space because they're taking in food, air, space, and not giving anything back to the community; they might feel like parasites. I wouldn't necessarily agree with that thought, but that's probably how some of them feel.

All I know is that I wake up every morning hating the fact that I woke up and drudging the fact that I have to get up and do shit.

I go to be hoping I don't wake up and that if I do I don't have to do shit, alas I never get what I want in that regard.

How exactly to you explain that? Rhetorical question by the way.

When I think I always think about all the bad things that could happen and I don't even notice the good.

Depression is way to large a disease/syndrome/ or whatever you want to call it to condense into a real study or to analyse with complete accuracy, it comes down to the individual really.

Aaaaaan here I go again with the shit about me...dammit I need to stop drinking.

This post has been edited by Lvl 50 Fighter: 16 February 2012 - 02:26 AM

Well, alcohol is a depressant, so there you go. ^_^

I remember a study where they did concluded that people are much more likely to describe themselves as happy when their mind is focused on what they're doing at the time.

So just, try to stay focused in the present, slow yourself down.

This post has been edited by CaptainBaconMan: 16 February 2012 - 06:35 AM

It's hard....really hard to stay focused when all I can think of are the bad things and the failures you know.

I heard they recently did a study in to this and I think they may have mentioned it effecting younger people if they become unemployed for long periods of time as well.

I think the effects varied depending not on just how mentally and physically active the person was but also on their mind set. When my grandfather retired he was fine for years but when my grandmother died his health went down hill despite how healthy he was. Over the last few years he's also become a little forgetful and unless he's doing something that keeps him busy, after too long doing nothing he can be rather grouchy and while not depressive, he can get rather melancholy.

Well, they've already proven that you brain is constantly rewiring itself according to how you use it. And if you don't use it should only follow that it would fall into a state of disrepair, especially at an old age.

Yes. (to your question stillbini)

I understand where the idea is coming from and I agree with you wholeheartedly, Teashi. I work from home too and I've found that if I don't go out for my daily walk, or at least get out of the house at least once, my mind quickly slips into a state of sorrow and fear and it's harder to get my work done without feeling like a complete failure.

Of course there's always other reasons for being depressed. I'm employed but depressed anyway, solely because I have Crohn's Disease and it really affects the mind when you have a lifelong disease that'll never leave. Which is why I rely so much on sunlight to keep me happy because I tend to get really depressed if inside for long enough.

So I'd say in regards to the question it's sort of a yes and a no.

Because if I weren't employed I'd likely be writing or drawing all day, and that alone manages to keep me sane.

I've got this whole self esteem issue, that makes it, so no matter what I do, when I speak with someone, or when I am around someone I can only think about all the reasons why they hate me....that makes me depressed. (Even now that's the only thing I can think of really)

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I think its far more likely the other way around: people who are unemployable have these habits, and thus don't have jobs. People who have mental illnesses are far more likely to be unemployable or unemployed.

You might suffer from non-clinical depression due to feelings of worthlessness (or you know, actually being worthless in some cases - if you haven't had a job in 5 years, it is your own fault).

A lot of senior citizens do just fine being retired. It depends on what sort of person you are. My grandparents lasted a long time after retirement and they did not work.

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Its actually pretty rare to be deficient in Vitamin D, because Vitamin D is added to so many foods - for example, pretty much all milk in the US is fortified with Vitamin D. It is also found in salmon and tuna, which are both pretty common fish to eat, though I suppose in Australia it may be less so. Eggs also have vitamin D in them.

I will also note that there is no evidence that Vitamin D deficiency causes depression; it is believed that, rather, depression causes low levels of vitamin D because depressed people tend to spend a lot of time indoors - more so than non-depressed people. Unsurprisngly, this means that if they don't eat foods that contain vitamin D, and they don't drink milk or cereal, both of which are often fortified with vitamin D, they could very well be deficient.

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What bright light does is realign your circadian rhythm. Some people do suffer from SAD, but if you don't, you're probably fine, though it can cause drift. Still, unless you live in a cave its unlikely things will go too badly for you, as most people get at least -some- light. Long term lack of exposure to any sort of sunlight at all can permanently mess up your circadian rhythm though - or at least, one guy who DID spend a year and change in a cave ended up with a permanently messed up cycle.

Titanium Dragon, on 26 February 2012 - 11:13 AM, said:

Everybody has some intrinsic value, until they find a practical replacements for human guinea pigs and medical cadavers anyway.

^ Haha

I personally find I need a time to chill and do nothing every once in a while, but that's what holidays are for. I guess problems come when you're working and get no holiday...

But I'd get bored if I was always like this, it's about balance, right?