Bittersweet Candy Bowl Forums

The poll is about the OS only, not the hardware!

Well, I'm a little curious about the opinion of people here about Operating Systems.

I went to the USA last September, hell-bent on buying a Macbook Pro 15" with intel i5 on it. I went prepared for the price, 1800 dollars. Which is a lot cheaper than here in Brazil, 6500 reais, around 3600 U$.
But when I finally got to search and properly look at the prices, I found a Sony Vaio, 13", with intel i5 processor.
For 1000 U$. That would sell in Brazil for about 3600 U$, too.
That got me by surprise. I ended up buying the Vaio, and enjoying my extra 800 dollars buying a PS3 and a iTouch.

Well, whatever, I just wrote that to say, MAN why oh why are Apple Related stuff so so so expensive?

Mind me, in my opinion, Mac OS X is a superior OS than Windows, and the hardware is much better, in power, velocity and looks. I just can't friggin' afford one. (and, no, I didn't want to buy anything less then the i5 processor)

So I use Windows 7, that is MUCH better than Vista, to make through my classes.
I have a partition with the latest Linux Mint, (Unix based OS, just like Mac OS X), because some classes require that OS. I could like it more, if I had to use it.

Ending this post, my simple opinion is:
I'm a shadow Mac fan, and someday I'll be able to fulfill this insane dream of owning a Mac, but until then, I'll use Windows. Linux, ahn, just for when I need it.

This post has been edited by Lycan: 14 December 2010 - 01:10 AM

Having a Mac with Leopard and a machine with Windows 7, I have to say I like Windows better. Probably because I'm more familiar with it, but everything seems nice without being too sleek. Just... nice. That being said Mac is really nice when you just want to do something, and far easier for someone like my Grandparents to understand, which is commendable in it's achievement.

And Windows Vista is terrible.

This post has been edited by Gameking218: 14 December 2010 - 12:49 AM

Lycus the same thing happened to me, i went out to buy a 13" macbook pro and came out of best buy with a much faster(1GB of graphics), bigger (16") Asus, and a free upgrade to windows 7... really windows 7 has almost no flaws and, if you get google chrome, the internet explorer is just about as reliable as safari. oh and plus when your playing games the system doesnt heat up to 150 degrees(F) lol.

PS3 OS...I just voted Linux.

I prefer fedora linux on my desktop, but freebsd on my server.

I've always liked Windows, except for Vista, which was terrible. I'm using 7 right now and it's fantastic. I've used Mac in the past, but I guess I just never really liked it? I know it's good for some things, depending on what you want to do. Windows has always been my preference for PC gaming and working with art/graphic design.

Starwatcher, on 14 December 2010 - 05:45 AM, said:

Fedora is pretty awesome. It's good if you want to game.

This post has been edited by CaptainBaconMan: 14 December 2010 - 07:55 PM

Mac OS X is for people with design taste and a real interest in having the best UI presented to them at all times. For people like me who get angry when they see a dialogue box present them with "OK" and "Cancel" as options, when instead they should be saying "[verb]" and "Don't [verb]". There are many little things that are so much more logical and better thought out in OS X, and it makes for a productivity boost in the long term. Also, OS X has a huge array of wonderful apps that don't exist or suck on Windows, like Tweetie, Coda, TextMate, iPhoto, Transmit, Transmission, Colloquy, iTunes, and iChat. The only practical reason to use Windows is if you don't mind wasting time navigating shitty UI and play a lot of games. Otherwise you're just using something second-rate, and if you feel otherwise, it's just because you grew up on Windows and you'd learn OS X if you just committed to it.

Desktop Linux is for douchebags who spend all their time messing with their computer. Nobody should use it except people who run serious servers and do boring programming stuff I don't care about.

Mac hardware is a bit more expensive than equivalent PC hardware, and only competes in mid-high end spaces. The premium is slightly justified by nice hardware features that everyone else fucks up on (well made enclosures, high quality LCD panels, good weight\battery life balance, backlit keyboards, magnetic power cords, etc) but entirely justified (and more) by the fact it's the only platform that runs OS X properly, and OS X makes me productive enough to be more than worth the small premium. (Remember, OSX86 doesn't count, because half of the "it just works" appeal goes away when you spend 2 hours each day trawling message boards trying to figure out how to stop it kernel panicking on sleep while you shop newegg for the best deal on a compatible wifi dongle)

I wish Apple put their prices up a quarter and moved production to Germany or something, though. "Apple products are better made and more reliable" would be a lovely way to justify the premium, but they're the same as any other cheap chinese shit nowadays.

Lycan, a MacBook 13" is about $1200. Which keeps up with my general guess of, all specs being equal, Macs costing 10-30% more than their competing products depending on where you buy in the Mac product cycle. You were comparing some 13" Vaio to the 15" MBP, which competes with the higher end 15" Vaios which probably cost closer to $1500

(nameless), the PS3 doesn't run Linux as its OS, the XMB and underlying tech is some proprietary embedded thing. Unless you're a holdout running Yellow Dog, in which case godspeed

Yes, the 13" Macbook is 1200 U$, but it doesn't have the processor I wanted.
The size of the screen doesn't matter, I'd buy a 13" Macbook (and compare it) if it had i5 processor in it.
I was comparing the processor, so... it is a good comparison.
I bet a Vaio would cost less than 1000 US if it still had the Core 2 duo. Actualy, I saw some Laptops, they are around 800 U$.

And I do 'boring' programming stuff.

But even so, Mac is a Unix based system, which makes it very good in dealing with programming stuff. I relish the thought of using Xcode to write my code. It seems very reliable.

And yeah, I agree, everyone who doesn't think that Macs are the awesome (and everything else is complete shit) are stupid idiots. And everyone that loves Mac OS X are refined people with good tastes *sarcasm*
It's not that simple.

I also don't have thousands of dollars to just throw away. But I digress, threads like this are always full of bias. You can't possibly weigh and balance the advantages and disadvantages of each system and just say 'this one's good everyone else sucks'. Like Lycan said, it's just not that simple.

This post has been edited by CaptainBaconMan: 14 December 2010 - 08:01 PM

Lycan, on 14 December 2010 - 05:42 PM, said:

This is a very specific and unusual case, though I guess very common as, unlike Sony, Apple has only a small selection of models that may not cover your needs if they're tech-spec-specific. In the case of the MacBook 13", the reason it still uses C2D is because of a patent dispute between NVIDIA and Intel, that essentially put them in the position of either offering an i3\i5 MacBook 13" with shit Intel graphics, or (as they chose) a MacBook 13" with a last-gen CPU and good NVIDIA graphics.

I would still insist that you were wrong to care that much about the CPU, though. CPU speed doesn't matter much at all these days, and the Core i5 is hardly a gigantic leap forward. I went from C2D 2.4ghz to a quad-core 2.66ghz i5, and it still chugs just as hard in the same places. Nice to have, but in the end, you've got a shitty Vaio running Windows, which hurts you a lot more than having 13% faster compile times or whatever.

Lycan, on 14 December 2010 - 05:42 PM, said:

$800 * 1.3 = $1040. So assuming you're exaggerating a little, or that your $800 C2D laptop is actually comparable to the $999 MacBook non-pro, sounds like my 10-30% premium is still on the money?

Lycan, on 14 December 2010 - 05:42 PM, said:

Frustrated Writer bitches on the IRC about how bad Xcode is. I dunno. Suppose you can run Eclipse natively, or whatever else you want in VMWare, though.

Lycan, on 14 December 2010 - 05:42 PM, said:

It really is. Did you even know that thing about dialogue boxes and verbs on buttons? Do you care that there's no inbuilt way to develop muscle-memory understanding of where menu items are placed in Windows, yet on OS X it's regulated from the start? That task-based UIs are extremely limited and novice-specific and yet seemed to corrupt Windows' UI design for the better part of a decade? That there're dozens of consistent keyboard shortcuts across OS X apps that constantly shift on Windows? There are hundreds of little things Apple gets right that Microsoft fucks up that make the experience better. If you're too short-sighted to care about any of that stuff, then yeah, maybe Windows will seem directly equivalent and the Apple tax will seem like a ripoff.

Of course, with time, Apple falls behind and Microsoft moves ahead - Vista was a big leap forward and Leopard\Snow Leopard have been meandering and lame. But for now, the differences still exist, and for anyone who uses a computer a lot of the day (i.e. all of you) it's simply ignorant to use anything else.

I just mean by (quoting myself)

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that there are Mac users that are ridiculously stupid and don't care about any of what you said, they just buy Macs because their friends have it, or whatever idiotic reason like that,
And that there are Windows/Linux users who are not stupid and care a lot about design, have good taste and especially care about the freedom the OS X doesn't offer (not saying its exactly a bad thing, that can protect the users as well as make the system far better).

Also, don't make it about the users, man. I wanted to know what people thought was better comparing OSs, not the users

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Yeah, but I didn't buy the 800U$ C2D laptop, but the i5 one that has the same price as the non-pro 13". The non pro doesn't have back-lit keyboard, does it? (real question, I'm not sure right now)

Also, to keep up and buy Apple programs, you have to have a lot of money, with Windows I can make do with some very good free stuff in the internet. (of course they're not as good as the paid Apple programs, but, oh well, can't always have what you want...)

A friend of mine compared Macs to sports cars and PCs to regular cars. Both run, but one is shinier and more expensive than the other.
(But now that I think about it... wasn't that good of a comparison... Macs are better, but sports cars aren't necessarily better...)

This post has been edited by Lycan: 15 December 2010 - 02:18 PM

The better example is that you bought a Toyota because you didn't care to spend a few bucks extra on a Merc.

I like Windows persoanlly. I used MAC for a while but didn't get what was so "hot" and "fresh" about it. It was kinda cluttered and stupid in my opinion so I stick to Windows 7.

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Since Toyota does many times better in terms of reliability and user-friendliness? ^_^

Change "you didn't care" to "couldn't afford to" and "few bucks extra" to "a lot more" and we agree ^_^

Well, I could afford to, but even I have to eat sometimes >_<
(actually, it was a Mac or a Sony Vaio+PS3+iTouch, so...)

But hey, I thought many of you would choose "Mac" on the poll.
I thought it would be like this for you guys:


Doesn't look like it, hum.

This post has been edited by Lycan: 16 December 2010 - 01:45 AM

Hee~

Oh, that picture amuses me to no foreseeable end. ^_^

Lycan, I've asserted that the Apple tax is 10-30%, and kind of proved it on the upper end with your two examples. 30% isn't "a lot more" in my opinion.

ILB, I thought about the brands a little when saying that. I don't know if there's necessarily a disparity in reliability, but it is true that a Toyota is cheaper and easier to service when it does break down. But on user-friendliness, or general manufacturer thoughtfulness, a Mercedes or BMW or whatever seems apt.

SuitCase, on 14 December 2010 - 12:32 PM, said:

no itunes always sucks

I do dislike iTunes. The fact that I HAVE to use it to manage my iTouch musics bothers me.

And, Magic Mouse. God that's awful.

Well, about the 10~30% thing... 10% is ok, but 30% is too much. That's about a month of my salary 0_o"

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Well, Toyota can boast of less breakdowns, more family-friendliness and generally staying in one piece longer than most other cars on the market. At least that is the case here; I have no idea whether the situation is different in the Americas or Australia or mainland Europe.

It was not really an argument, though. Just a bit of a fun thought. ^_^

whf, on 16 December 2010 - 12:32 PM, said:

iTunes sucks, but like OS X generally, it's still the best sucky thing out there.

I use a Magic Mouse. It's flawed, but the scrolling is hard to give up.

Oh, Mac's track pads are the best

No one else to say bad things about Windows, Linux or Macs?
That's pretty much it, I think.

We have 'Mac' overshadowed by 'Anything but Mac' (though I guess some were to troll Mr. SuitCase ^_^)
We have many Windows, guess it's very popular (as it always has been)
And we have a few Linux users. And some 'Anything but Linux'

Mac's are ok now that they can use Steam, but i still pick Windows (i'm a PC gamer, as you can tell), and Linux can just fuck off.

linux and freebsd for me, I use windows for games from time to time...

Mostly what I do is run stuff on the command line, which is why my freebsd box works well.

I'd rather use linux, but I can't give up a few applications that only run for windows (GameMaker, Atreb, etc) and I don't really have time to deal with linux when it doesn't play nice. My current 2004 windows laptop is tempermental enough as it is.

Yeah, if your stuck using those apps its pretty crappy. Not a heck of a lot you can do unless you either get lucky or spend a huge amount of time getting them to play nice.

I dual booted for a while before giving them up...