Bittersweet Candy Bowl Forums

Allow me to explain my retarded Topic Title. The question is basically this: Can a person create meaningful art through the methods of fan-art and fan-fiction?

I've noticed a lot of people say that fanart (specifically of the literary variety) is pointless. I can see it -generally- being valued less than original works, but does that suddenly mean it is worthless or embarrassing?

It annoys me to see people say it is a "waste of time," because that doesn't make sense to me at all. Honestly, most people who seem to have an active dislike for these things are deliberately ignorant and like to bend over backward for the sake of their own fabricated individualism -fucking hipsters, amiright?.
I'm also curious to see how many people will maintain a negative stance toward fanart in an environment like this. Normally it is joking, off-hand, and without thought, but a thread like this would probably be a much better gauge of how people truly feel about it. I predict a great many people will have a stance similar to mine: it can be art, but original work is generally considered more functional for such a purpose. But maybe you all feel completely different.

I think it depends on how the art is created and how much can be considered somewhat original

Something that has just had images cut and pasted to change a punchline or situation would be considered "fanart" but I think that hold no value. Whereas someone who thinks up an original idea uses their own work and put effort into that idea would potentially have value.

2 examples I could think of that I see on the Forum would be the difference between the Edits thread and the excellent tagged worked in Candybooru, both are fanart yet the items on the booru are of much higher value than those on the edits thread in my opinion

This isn't a discussion on the definition of art again is it, because I will break out the chick pissing in the spaghetti-o's video.

The one thing about fanart and fanfiction especially is that half the work is really done for you most of the time. You have a target audience who normall knows the background and characteristics of the characters or place you are working with unless you add characters or something. But you are piggy backing in the end. Doesn't make it worth any less, it's just an observation.

I think fanart is fine, any sort of artistic practice is good practice and man are there some mind blowing pieces of fanart out there.

HOWEVER!!!!!!!! When it comes to people with skill and ability, I feel it is ultimately a shame if it's all they do and if they don't ever come out of that bubble. It's fine if it's something you wanna do for fun I guess, but if it's something you take seriously, and heck, might make money off of, it makes me feel like it's wasted talent.

Here's an example: I've seen artists with original characters delve into things like My Little Pony or the Pokemon Explorer club. Then.. it becomes all they draw. And it's kinda sad because it's like.. you could be building up your original world but instead you're just riding on an existing fandom. I can see why people do that though, since fanart gets recognition much quicker than original work.. But nonetheless it really freaken rubs me the wrong way -- as an artist that started out drawing sonic comics and moving onto original work

I mean draw or write what you want, art is art. Fanart is definitely art, but then the question is are you really doing the most you can with your creativity? Will you be the author of an original novel or will you be a frequent booth-goer who makes plenty on well-made fullmetal alchemist buttons?

I think it could even be a comfort thing, yeah you can write an original story but it's a lot harder to get people interested in it and keep their interest if you're only putting out say a page every 2 weeks or writing a chapter every month. Fan art I feel gets a bit more of a past cause these are already pre-established characters and worlds that your audience doesn't have to try and remember the rules to if you don't update a lot. Also I feel like a lot and I mean a lot of people can get away with absolutely terrible grammar and writing in fan fiction that wouldn't fly in their original works, just because people like to see different interpretations of that show or whatever the fanfic is about.

That being said I still think it is art, even the bad ones, though I agree with Taeshi that it is sad to see someone with really good potential in writing or drawing wasting all their time on a huge piece of work that is just a fan story or drawing.

Fanfiction seems to be looked down on simply because of the large amount of, well, crap that it manages to produce. There is beautiful fanfiction out there, and I myself enjoy writing it because I love the source material so much. I'm a huge Metroid fan, so I tend to write and draw a lot of Metroid simply as a sort of nod towards how awesome the series is. I suppose it's the same for a lot of people, but I can speak for everyone nor do I want to.

Both mediums are indeed art, and there is beautiful fan art out there. I don't see anything wring with dabbling in either, and sometimes its nice to take a break from my original stories and just work with something someone else has created for a change.

I don't think fanart done by someone with good potential is a waste. I believe those who like writing and drawing enough will eventually move to making their own creations anyway, but if they don't have enough time or interest in the subject to do that they might never have begun to draw/write in the first place if they had not been fascinated by another author's creations.

There were some interesting points brought up in this thread, some of them even directly relevant to me.

There was a time (and I suppose a bit now) where I was really into writing fanfiction, and would seldom write anything original. I've gotten a little better with it, but I still write a lot of fan stories. And the reasons have been touched on as well. Though, I do feel that the difficulty in developing a fan-base was a little understated, mainly because writing is being paired with drawing.

Developing some fans as an artist usually isn't impossible. With enough practice, you can at least start getting a few people to follow your works. However, getting fans as a writer is much more difficult, since much more time must be invested into reading -- something which isn't exactly popular these days. I think that is really unfortunate because you end up with a lot of situations where people don't bother writing original works, simply because they know nobody will read them.

There is also the issue of popularity vs critiques. If nobody is reading your work, then how are you supposed to get any sort of advice? Go into the fiction section of DA and look at all the stories that have no feedback. You might find one with a reply, but it is either a pony fanfiction, or a comment from a friend. Everyday there are amazing writers and stories that never see the light of day, simply because they're bogged down by so many other stories, and so few readers to wade through them.

This post has been edited by Meowth: 24 August 2012 - 06:25 PM

Such a sad truth, Meowth. I know a few writers who simply don't post their work anymore because no one even cares. It's sad, to see such amazing writers that I've looked up to stop. And how many people haven't even bothered starting, simply because that pony fic over there hoards all the attention that they'll never receive with their original works?

As a writer myself I try not to let those things hamper me but sometimes it's really hard not to feel cheated out of at least some recognition.

Oh, definitely. One funny thing is that if you are really popular because of your fanwork already, it does help a bit when you springboard to original work.

But you notice the DIFFERENCE in feedback. It is insanely obvious. Once again taking from my own experience where I had a lot of people commenting on my sonic comics, and then I did BCB comics for kicks. And I noticed the feedback drop exponentially, and then nags started to come in like people wondering when the next sonic comic would be made, etc

I still remember a guy telling me to my face he just flat out didn't care about bcb and was only waiting for sonic comics, and that can be really discouraging!

Taeshi, on 24 August 2012 - 08:13 PM, said:

Yeah, I had that problem once I stopped writing Friends Forever! I tried writing all sorts of other stuff, both fanfiction and otherwise, but none of it ever really took off. The only thing that ever got any feedback at all, actually, was a fetish story. But that community is a train wreck when it comes to writing anyway, so I can barely feel any sense of achievement.

Taeshi, on 24 August 2012 - 08:13 PM, said:

Wow. Yeah, I can see how something like that would be unpleasant to hear. I mean, the implications are enough, since that lack of feedback alone is always whispering it in your ear, but to have someone out and say it seems excessive.

I think fanart could be considered "art." One can certainly take someone else's character and do something with it in a way that is artistic. At the same time though, some fanart is really, truly just awful.

Consider also the many paintings of the Greek Gods/Godesses, for example. That's essentially fanart, isn't it? It's taking someone else's characters and doing something artistic with it, which would make it fanart. They're still art, even if they are fanart.

I think this applies not just to historically significant characters (e.g. the classical Gods, the many Biblical figures featured in art, etc.), but to other characters as well. If someone makes a picture of a Paulo, does that mean it is not art because he's a character from a webcomic about angsty cats? No; it can still be considered "art."

i like fanart. i like looking at them and making them from time to time. fanart can be a really good place to start and experiment with. in some cases, fanart is a really good way to draw in the interest of new people, especially with how quickly some pieces of fanart spread through an artist's viewing base and then the fandom the piece of work belongs to.

i do feel it's a huge waste when all a person does is fanart, especially of they are serious about being an artist or going into a specific field. because not many people outside of their subculture will look at their stuff and be as amazed by it. in a lot of cases, people will be disappointed that it's fanart because they may feel it determines that the artist themself is unoriginal. like, who is going to be hired by a graphics firm? the designer who has a portfolio full of original concepts with minimal fan works or the designer whose portfolio is full of MLP, Pokemon, and Sonic?

This post has been edited by Kaxbe: 24 August 2012 - 08:39 PM

I can see how feedback is so important for any author. Unfortunately, even if people did read the fictions, only a fraction of them would actually leave any feedback. Even when I see nice fanarts and I feel like commenting, I often give up because I feel like I don't have anything interesting to say anyway... It feels dull to add just another "it's fantastic, good job", but I'd feel even more unconfortable trying to give advice or critique. Much more so about something I never did, like fictions.

I feel like the problem with critique is that most people on the internet simply don't know how to give good critique, if any at all.
It's really common to se most feedback given to someone's work be something in the lines of: "This is good, but not great, you know? You could improve more." or "I liked you other stuff better."

This can be a real problem, because there is nothing more to go on. What can I improve on? How is my other stuff better?

Without a clear goal to strive for, or a level that you wish to achieve, it just feels like you are walking down an endless road, desperatly trying to see the the end but only passing through signs that say: "You're gonna have to walk some more".

Other times the total lack of feedback is the problem, if you see a piece of work from someone and you really enjoyed it, say so. Don't be afraid to praise something you like, that way the author doesn't feel like no one is even seeing their work at all.
This will encourage him/her to put out more content and then maybe, just maybe, you will be able to see something that acttualy could use some improvement that the previous stuff didn't show.

Pretty much anything I could say about the matter has already been said quite well by everyone above me. There are plenty of great artists out there who can make exceptional fanart and fanfiction. However, I can see why someone would view the genre in whole as poor. Many people who write or draw fanart are pretentious, unwilling to listen to criticsm, make horrible self-insert OCs, and just generally aren't very good. Not to mention the fact that Fanart gains much more popularity than original work, with the popular fanart commonly being generic stories created with mass-appeal in mind (AmericaXReader, MLP shipping, etc.). However, when original works become popular, it's usually because they're sincerely good and worthwhile (with some exceptions, of course).

You also need to take into account how easy it is to get fanfiction out there as opposed to original stories. For fanfiction/fanart, you can just make something and put in on fandom groups on DA, Fanfiction.net, etc. however, for an original story or work of art, there really isn't any way to get it out there, unless you get a Daily Deviation, add some sort of fetish appeal, or just have enough talent to get it published. It's just much easier for average fanart to get out there instead of an original concept, so long as the fanart is for a subject matter with general popularity

This post has been edited by MintyFishbowl: 27 August 2012 - 10:49 AM

This post probably misses the point of the thread, but for what it's worth, I'd like to provide a historical context for this discussion. For most of human history, a good deal of fiction has been fanfiction. For example, most literary works from ancient civilizations (such as ancient Greece) all draw from the same sets of characters and events in that civilization's mythos, and these stories rarely include original characters created by the authors. Homer's Iliad and Odyssey, two of the oldest works in the Western canon, both draw upon extant characters and situations from Greek lore and mythology. Furthermore, many other great literary works from ancient Greece were essentially Homer fanfics, for example, Aeschylus' Oresteia trilogy, which follows the character of Agamemnon after the Iliad. Even the greatest writer in the English world, William Shakespeare, engaged in Iliad fanfiction, with his play Troilus and Cressida.

This phenomenon was not limited only to ancient times. In the middle ages, the legend of King Arthur developed a rather large fan community and many authors contributed to that fandom. The Bible is another work that inspired many "fan works," and one can consider Dante's The Divine Comedy as essentially a Bible fanfic complete with an author self-insert.

Some modern works fit into the fanfic category as well, such as Jean Rhys' Wide Sargasso Sea, listed as one of Modern Library's 100 best novels, which borrows the character of Bertha from Jane Eyre.

So, to answer Meowth's question: yes, throughout history, many authors have created meaningful literature by drawing from characters and storylines created by others. I'm also positive there have also been great artists that have made fanart and great works of art that could also be classified as fanart (even if they are not typically thought of in that way).

Taeshi, on 24 August 2012 - 08:13 PM, said:

Don't worry. I'm sure when you move on to your next projects after BCB, people will complain about your new stuff and say that they only care about BCB.

Wow, that was actually extremely enlightening.

Taeshi, on 24 August 2012 - 01:08 PM, said:

I fully agree. Fan art is a way for starting artists to learn and start creating their style, by imitating the style of their favourite artists. It's the same of a musician who starts his career by playing versions of his/her favourite songs.

But there is a point in which an artist should 'take off' and creat his own art. Other things are artist that simply have fun drawing BCB, My little Pony, or any other universe, and they don't expect or don't want to create something new. Just like the virtuous piano players who enjoy playing the best songs of Mozart and Beethoven without thinking on writing a song on their own.