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Taeshi, on 19 March 2013 - 06:27 AM, said:

because jasmine is a bad habit.

the funniest part in all of this is that Paulo was really trying to be a good boyfriend. he was wanting to spend time with her, he was trying to do things with her. and what happened? she couldn't make time for him. over and over.

it is completely unsurprising that he wanted to break it off from her.

she was second place because she was never willing to actually try for him. she took him for granted, and only made time for him by stopping things she didn't want to do. he was a convenient excuse for her.

it's entirely her own fault it happened, and she refuses to see that. she's bitter! good! she should be! she fucked up.

Entirely her own fault? Even if Jasmine had made all the time in the world for Paulo, the relationship wouldn't necessarily have lasted. It's still a high school relationship. Plus Paulo might've still had feelings for Lucy, who after all was his crush and someone he was concerned about.

Yes, Jasmine was partly at fault here. She did need to make more time for her boyfriend. And she recognized that fact, which is why she initially broke up with him. And of course, having broken up with him, she should have been done with him and moved on. However, I don't blame her for feeling hurt when she found out why Paulo wanted to break up with her. The fact is the truth sometimes stings, even though Jasmine deserved to be told it (and I do absolutely support Paulo telling her the truth).

I wonder how different the circumstances would have been had she made time for Paulo all along. Would it have been inevitable, given his interactions with Lucy (the Carry Me chapter was the turning point for Paulo), if Jasmine had been more romantically available and...well, physically available from the get go? His feelings might not have had the chance to wander if that was the case.

I think her bitterness is justified, though, as others have explained. It's hard to imagine your first kiss demarcating the ending point of your first relationship, only to soon after discover that person has already moved on to another. Whether you are 14 or 30. It was probably unnecessary to drop a rhetorical question like that towards Paulo though. What would be the correct answer? No, I hated it? Trap question.

Of course it still would have happened you louts. Jazzie did begin to make more time for Paulo so that whole commitment thing wasn't as big an issue there after Carry Me occurred. Certainly it grated at the back of Paulo's mind but he saw she was willing to come forward.

Paulo was going to break up with Jazzie not because of the time thing but because of his boner for Lucy regardless of whatever Jazzie did there. It was pretty obvious from the piece of cake chapter at the very least and come on we all knew what would happen years ago. Perhaps not in such a fashion but that it would.

So yeah it's a little bit of garbage to make her look like the bad guy here and it makes your argument rather pitiful Mouse. Good lord the way you look at Paulo x Lucy is like a nurse doting on an invalid.

This post has been edited by Ace: 19 March 2013 - 04:17 PM

Spacemouse reads oddly bitter for someone who is running his victory in Ace's face.

Jasmine is (fortunately) not flawless, although, her reaction wasn't really expected. You never know how people can be like on the other side of the coin, eh?

I'd consider the reaction to be natural, but if she is going to be sulking over she felt used by Paulo because she couldn't spend enough time with him, that's her problem. The potential mistake on Paulo's behalf would be to try make that problem his.

Besides, it wasn't like Jasmine didn't hurt him during the course of the relationship. It's not entirely by the fact she's constantly being busy, but by how she was communicating with Paulo. Their "fight" is a good example. Despite Paulo went through that effort getting those tickets, he said he'd still be cool if he was just able to spend time with her. That Jasmine responded with an accusation that Paulo made her feel bad was like saying he had no right in expressing his feelings over their relationship. In addition, questioning what right he had to feel grumpy because she was dependent on scheduling her life was stupid, implying he couldn't be a part of her planning.

The pattern I can see is that Jasmine is prone to suggest spending time at a point she's just going to turn out being busy, leaving Paulo who had great anticipations being ditched. It would be one thing if she was feeling suffocated by Paulo, but that's clearly not the case. She was practically having no priority on her boyfriend, treating him like he was only good enough for the few moments he could be put to use.

Even if Jasmine eventually managed to make more time for Paulo, it wasn't really enough to fully satisfy him. It's indeed in a sense because of Paulo's boner for Lucy that he wanted to end the relationship, but if Jasmine had been more available and intimate with Paulo at an earlier stage of their relationship, he could have fallen for her. After all, Paulo became really attached to her, thinking of her as super awesome and hot.

However, Jasmine is still the more mature and capable, easily surpassing the older girls on that front. Firstly, Paulo was framed into a relationship as a "friend" by Tess, there she conveniently revealed it was doomed at their first date. Secondly, Lucy came and used him to sponge her emotional highs and lows, and then claim they are just friends while giving mixed messages. Even if Jasmine at first façaded the relationship, she gladly made it official when Paulo wanted to go further.

wacko, on 19 March 2013 - 03:59 PM, said:

She tried to make more time for him, and so Paulo (in response), made sure he was dedicated to her. And what happened? She continued to make excuse after excuse for not seeing him, as well as continuing to push him away.
I don't blame her for feeling hurt, either! I blame her for her mistakes. When you fuck up, you should generally feel bad about it.

Ace, on 19 March 2013 - 04:09 PM, said:

False. She continued to not make time for Paulo (see her phone calls over vacation), and again, she only was able to make time for Paulo by stopping something she didn't want to do. Paulo, to her, was only slightly better than violin lessons. But not anything else she did! He was literally just above bottom for her priority scale.

What you're failing to grasp Ace is that Paulo was pushed toward Lucy by Jasmine's negligence. She wasn't there for him. Jasmine served as a distraction for Paulo from Lucy multiple times over the semester - which is a major part as to why Lucy's withdrawing more and more.

She is the bad guy here. Her being a bad girlfriend is what caused Paulo's heart to be unable to pay any attention to her. She ignored his needs and wants, and continued to be what she is: a selfish freshman. I know you're completely unable to see your Jazzie doing anything wrong, but face it Ace. She fucked up. The only reason Jasmine isn't completely gone is because Taeshi knows you'd have a real good cry if she did actually get on a bus. What was it? "Jasmine has no tie to the rest of the cast without Paulo"? She's friends with Hailey (who actively avoids Mike). The entire rest of the cast tolerates her presence because of their belief Jasmine and Paulo are still dating - a notion soon to be shattered!

Jasmine is upset that she was unable to break the relationship on her terms. She decided on her own to have them step back and break it off - she realized that she wasn't making time for him, that was her mistake. I respect her for realizing this. However, her realizing how badly her fucking up costed her is what she's bitter over. Envy is Jasmine's sin.

Your perfect princess is just a spoiled child, Ace. Go back to writing fanfiction where she's happy.

This post has been edited by SpaceMouse: 19 March 2013 - 06:26 PM

she is 14

Kaxbe, on 19 March 2013 - 06:33 PM, said:

"she's white"

your response makes no sense

To be fair to Jasmine, going to see her grandma over the holidays was probably not something she had much control over. She did ask her parents to return in time so she could attend Tess' New Year's Eve party.

Also, a lot of Jasmine's commitments were pre-existing, and not really something she could dump at the drop of a hat. Seeing things through shows maturity, and it wouldn't have been fair to her friends or teammates to simply abandon them for her new boyfriend. Although even then, there were moments when she could have made time for Paulo: she could have gone with him instead of going to the mall with her friends, for example. If you get into a relationship, you have to make a commitment to the other person, and that's what I don't think Jasmine realized at first: that Paulo was just as much a commitment as her other activities. I think Jasmine was looking for a fun and worry-free first relationship that she could fit in between her other stuff, rather than anything too serious. Paulo on the other hand was ready for more serious commitment, and wanted to actually spend time with his girl. So in that sense, they weren't really compatible, because they each wanted different things out of the relationship.

Kaxbe, on 19 March 2013 - 06:50 PM, said:

you're saying she can't help it because of something out of her control - i'm just drawing a parallel and trying to incite you.

nah, i'm saying she's 14 years old and not as experienced in love and dating as you are and therefore her mistakes are understandable.

Kaxbe, on 19 March 2013 - 07:02 PM, said:

yes! she's a child. she's going to fuck up. she should feel bad about it. so she doesn't repeat those mistakes next time she's in a relationship.

Taeshi, on 19 March 2013 - 06:27 AM, said:

I agree with that, but I'd never seen her that way (when she was, I must've missed it; my memory is incredibly poor). Paulo dicking her around? Yes, that was obvious from the beginning. But even if she does get openly jealous now, it doesn't suit her; especially not losing her composure like that which is what I've been trying to say in the first place. I figured if she did get sad or jealous, it'd be subtle around him and she'd just let it all out later. That's just how I've come to understand her. Even if Paulo did come back like that, I'd STILL trust her to act less like a fourteen year old. Frankly, I didn't check the cast page and didn't know how old she was. For all I knew, she was fifteen or sixteen going on thirty (I know about the timeline here, I'm just ignoring it for a moment for the sake of argument).

Not that I don't appreciate you explaining all this to me or that I think her reaction was an author error or anything. Compare her to Abbey for a moment: Abbey is maincast and a shitty character, Jasmine has a bit part but runs circles right the fuck around him in character quality.

You're right. She is fourteen and she does have the emotions of a fourteen year old. But could you blame me for expecting a more reserved attitude toward this situation? It's not a pleasant situation for anybody but out of the entire cast I trusted her the most not to react that way. Hence "grow the fuck up." That said, I can see the faults in what I said; you have every right to change, alter or emphasize negative aspects of her personality since her entire social dynamic has changed.

SpaceMouse, on 19 March 2013 - 07:16 PM, said:

Important need to no information about this comic.

Moving away for a moment from all of the Paulo x Jazzy butthurt *looks at Ace and spacemouse*, Will lucy ever get back to acting "normal" as opposed to being so hollow and emotionless?

This post has been edited by Foolishprototype001: 19 March 2013 - 09:35 PM

No one gives two shits foolish

I for one hope so. She is like a succubus devouring all emotions from any one who gets to close to her. Evrey one is in danger she may have gotten to jasmine as well.

This post has been edited by bluefox: 19 March 2013 - 09:52 PM

Jerk's last post reminded me that I wondered two years ago whether Jasmine was jealous. She didn't seem to show it much in the comic, but it turned out, as clarified by Taeshi, that she was indeed jealous of Lucy (and Tess as well, as shown on the relationship chart).

Taeshi said:

Similarly, Abbey is second fiddle in Daisy's heart. Except I rather doubt Jerk will have much sympathy for him if Daisy should ever dump him for Mike.

Foolishprototype001 said:

Not for a long while, I would think. The pain of losing Mike even as a friend will take quite some time to get over, especially when she'd been dependent on him for so long. In fact, it's probably one of those pivotal moments in her life that she'll always remember forever as contributing to the makeup of the person she is (or will be in future).

Heheh. Jelly Jazzy is jelly.

Ace, on 19 March 2013 - 09:47 PM, said:

Now thats not polite Ace. Just accept the fact your ship is sunk and move on with your life.

Foolishprototype001, on 19 March 2013 - 10:01 PM, said:

Someone's going to have a forced hiatus for a week from the forum if he doesn't start making drastic improvements to the quality and thought provoking integrity of his commentary in his next few posts.

Last warning

SpaceMouse, on 19 March 2013 - 06:21 PM, said:

Look, Mouse, I know you masturbate to Another Path every day, but remember where it occurs in the story. Paulo had second thoughts about this the whole damn time he got with Jasmine. Did her actions in not spending time contribute? You betcha sonny. Did she try to work on it? Yes she did. (BTW I didn't think you'd be stupid enough to bring up the grandma thing, but mores the pity) But yeah this is what ended up causing her to realize that she didn't know what a relationship really was and that it was unfair to both of them to continue it.

Now, when we get to why she is upset, please tell me you aren't so blind as not to see what's really going on here.
1. She's 14 and she broke up. Come on, that causes some tears even when you're the one doing the dumping.
2. She probably wouldn't take it as hard if Paulo had said like, "Jazzy look this isn't working because I can't see you and etc etc etc." No she's a little sad and angry because the reason he gave for dropping her was to go to someone else. I think I'd be pretty bitter about something like that also.

Hey, maybe I see what you're trying to say that she "realized" she fucked up somehow by keeping Paulo apart from someone he truly loves or something. But lets be honest here, neither of us really believes that garbage.

Bottom line: Jasmine and Paulo's relationship was shoddy to begin with and, while neat at times, was a high school relationship where both parties barely knew what they wanted. Please think for a moment before you shove all your frustration out without any thought about it.

Man this serious cat drama is leaving a bad taste in my mouth.

This post has been edited by Ace: 19 March 2013 - 10:29 PM

It's both there fault for growing up into confused teenagers who don't no what they want. I guess the author is a little bit to blame but im not complaining.

This post has been edited by bluefox: 19 March 2013 - 10:47 PM

Jerk, on 19 March 2013 - 08:51 PM, said:

Everyone agrees: we all hate Abbey

Ace, on 19 March 2013 - 10:22 PM, said:

Ehhh. I think his entire 'giving her a shot' thing in Back and Forth shows at the time he enters into it, he isn't thinking about Lucy romantically. They were starting to get together, and then David 'bang everything' fucks it up and throws Paulo into a series of bad decisions. Here comes Jasmine - she looks like a chance for him to redeem himself.
Another Path happens, and Paulo wonders if he made the right choice. Begin Paulo's character development of thinking about what he should do. During this, he keeps giving Jasmine more chances - he resolves in Carry Me to break up, spends the entire day taking care of a sick Lucy, but because of her gesture at the end of it, resolves to keep going. To keep trying to make it work. Lucy's descent into depression and Jasmine's continued negligence continue to push him away. Friends encourage Paulo away from Jasmine. He doesn't act based on a snap judgement - this entire thing he's thought a lot about, and didn't want to hurt Jasmine. He is honest because he knows it's the right thing to do.
Again, Jasmine wanted the best situation for herself - she had Paulo at one step above "violin lessons", couldn't make time for him, put everything else first, and decided on her own to break it off with that as the excuse. She'd keep the power there. She justified that in her mind.

Breakups hurt; I've not once said they don't. Even in a mutual breakup. However - she was going into it not expecting to be hurt (she's breaking it off with him) and got hurt (realizing she fucked up so badly his heart strayed, even though he not once cheated on her).
She has no right to be bitter at Paulo. She has every right to be bitter at herself. She was the one who fucked up. She was wanting to break it off with him. I reiterate: she should feel bad. She should be angry. At herself. She played the breakup card before him, and wanted honesty. That is not his fault.

I am not saying she 'realized she fucked up by keeping him away from his true love'. That's not what I'm saying at all. I'm saying, she either has or should realize she fucked up in that she was a bad girlfriend and let someone else into his heart. Because she wouldn't go into it. She spent her time pushing him back, pushing him away, making excuses, and even made excuses in her reasons for the breakup! That's how she fucked up. I'm glad to see you always enjoy strawmanning me on this, tho.

Bottom line: Paulo tried to make it work. Jasmine strung him along for months and barely made any effort to make it work. Paulo stayed faithful to her for months, despite getting heartbroken and frustrated. Jasmine used him to get rid of things in her life she didn't want.

Jasmine is to blame for this situation she ended up in. And she should feel bad about it, so she doesn't repeat the same mistakes with someone else later in life. If you actually did care about her, you'd see that.

This post has been edited by SpaceMouse: 19 March 2013 - 11:40 PM

Good god, Ace, spacemouse,please stop this back and fourth p***ing match. Weres Jerk when hes needed. These two need a textual bitchslap/reality check.

Foolishprototype001, on 20 March 2013 - 12:14 AM, said:

you're crying more than Jasmine

jasmine sheds no tears

A funny thing is that Paulo in a way do recognize Lucy as a bitch, albeit under the labels as "high maintenance". Even if she's demanding and lacks any respect for other's boundaries, it's for him considered worth it because he can spend a lot of time with her. Although, there has obviously been a tiny alteration in her personality.

As for Jasmine, she's low maintenance, independent and doesn't require constant attention for fulfillment, which is an appreciated feature. Unfortunately, she's also very busy, which logically doesn't work so well with Paulo.

Of course, Paulo got his own flaws by that he can be insensitive. The way he communicated is easy enough to translate into: "No, it isn't because of you being way too busy, the entire reason I want to break up is because of I suddenly figured out I infact had a thing for this other girl all along". He might have realized this in a retrospect and might be going through the optional effort to try explain this misunderstanding. But like I once mentioned earlier, he shouldn't be too focused into trying to turn others' problems into his.

wacko said:

Let us not forget Rachel, her fling on Paulo sure haven't gone unnoticed for Jasmine.

Speaking of Rachel, when this entire ordeal is over, maybe Paulo will just stick to her as friends with benefit.

best friend daisy

Jerk, just to be clear I can definitely see why you think Jasmine is acting out of character, because she totally is. In the sense that she has shown to be better than that, but this whole scenario just caught her off-guard and she ultimately couldn't deal with sitting with paulo after he showed signals of macking it with lucy. Funny enough if Jasmine was acting more cheerful paulo woulda still been an awkward weirdo about everything, and that would have complicated things.

in a way i wasn't really trying to pick a fight, i just found it really funny that jasmine is the youngest of the high school "regulars" and she was being called out for acting like a kid

(also this is sort of a mild fact that's been danced around and hinted at but sort of emphasized with her outburst - jasmine is pretty religious. Jasmine was even weird about paulo touching her in Piece of Cake. She's pretty reserved and kind of conservative when it comes to sexual stuff. So this whole "paulo clearly came back after fooling around with some girl" could have easily hit a nerve with her. She tries not to be judgemental of what other people do, but in this case it sort of gives her wrong signals from paulo. Like she had to "put out" for him to stay, and it reflects badly on Paulo in her eyes)

I DATED A MALE HARLOT

I'm glad you took the time to explain everything mouse. I was really getting tired of the "haha, she fucked up and should feel bad," which didn't explain anything and did give some justification to making you an ass.

But yeah I see what you are saying and ill take a middle ground here. This is a learning experience as most first relationships are. Jasmine did not know what a relationship was, that it was a two way street, how to pull strongly for Paulo's emotions. She didn't have the mindset to think beyond her own future which is pretty common for kids that age, especially those with such a background. So yes, she dun fucked up in that regard. And yes it was not a snap judgement by Paulo, but he harbored thoughts of Lucy from the beginning.

So, I think both parties are to blame for this not working out. And sure why not a little more on Jasmine's side, whatever. I do hope she learns from this, I hope they both do, but the amount of soul crushing you seem to think she should feel is very, very excessive. Breakups suck, but if you wish someone to feel that bad about it then wow, dick move.

Also, I do enjoy your commentary there Taeshi, putting things back in perspective.

I'll love it if the rest of Daisy's appearances in this chapter just involve things going over her head. Last three panels just kill me.

Foolishprototype001, on 20 March 2013 - 12:14 AM, said:

Even if I were a moderator I wouldn't do jack shit about it. They're well within their rights, as am I, to argue about whatever they want. If that means they just want to tear out each other's throat, we allow that too. Most of us have known each other for so long we can just survive the occasional pissing contest. If you don't like it, skip it. They have their reasons, just like I wanted to sort out with Taeshi what she meant. I didn't see her perspective on the irony until she spelled it out for me.

But we all give each other shit. It's what we do, mostly because we're beyond holding grudges at this point. People who do don't last long.

Plus, I'd only comment on their comments if I found something hilariously ironic or depressingly erroneous, neither of which I saw (mostly because I don't feel like reading most arguments.)

PS: I am by no means an authority on settling arguments by any stretch of the imagination. I hardly ever take time to say anything serious; those people who do have the capacity to conclude them do so indifferent ways and generally don't care to do so. If it's an argument about story details, ask wacko. If it's an argument about motivations that has nothing to do with spoilers whatsoever, ask Taeshi (in Formspring or something if she feels like it). If it's technical issue or a business transaction, you go to Suitcase. Don't condemn the argument just because it's an argument. Sometimes if you follow it closely you might learn something about rhetoric, argument or hilarious name-calling.

Jasmine should be converted into believing in Norse religion. Then she can be married to Paulo while he has Lucy as a concubine. Everybody wins!

The Vikings weren't so much about polyamory (read: consenting adults) so much as marrying Norse women and raping anyone else with a vagina.

This post has been edited by Jerk: 20 March 2013 - 09:25 AM

Oh God Taeshi.

You nailed the whole innocent Daisy thing in the second last panel perfectly.

This post has been edited by Vigtyr: 20 March 2013 - 10:08 AM

It's not that she's never seen a penis. It's just that Abbey's baby penis is so small nothing ever gets hot and heavy between them as his penis is neither hot nor heavy.

I hear if Abbey's dick sees its own shadow and retreats we get three more weeks of Spring.

Daisy's innocence vanished when Augustus' woke up the whore within her. If there was a chart of the boys' penis size, she'd be studying it with a guilty pleasure.

Yea im thinking lucy tried to rape paulo but he just wanted to talk. Lucy needs some help. The look on paulo's face wen he came out of the dressing room look'd like fear. Unlike last time wen they shared a sexual moment lucy was all tears and submissive just begging for it. So wen lucy tried to yell at his dick with her vagina this time he flipped out because she was coming on to him so strong. He probably felt insecure of himself now that he sees just how dominant she can be wen she wants to be . Seeing as how daisy is ever so helpful and can do no wrong maybe she will get paulo to talk about like the good friend she is.

This post has been edited by bluefox: 20 March 2013 - 12:10 PM

Oh Daisy your so adorable.

bluefox, on 20 March 2013 - 11:38 AM, said:

To be honest the happy look on Paulo's face as he describes things as "being heated" doesn't lead me to believe that she did freak him out that much, and that perhaps his look of shock was simply due to walking out of the dressing room to see Mike, who could have potentially "caught them in the act" a few moments earlier.

Also: "So wen lucy tried to yell at his dick with her vagina"

My god.

This post has been edited by Anialator: 20 March 2013 - 03:38 PM

Did Paulo just confirm that Lucy is a "screamer"?

If there were any actual screaming, one would've thought Mike would've heard it with his super-sensitive ears.

I doubt Lucy and Paulo had any actual sex (the robe she was wearing and the amount of time didn't really permit it). That's not to say Lucy couldn't have groped Paulo and surprised him though. And it would've made him happy to know she wanted him in that way. Hopefully he does take the time to consider how Lucy approached him, and ask himself whether there's something not quite right with the whole situation.

Man, Daisy seems so innocent. That's the way she plays with Abbey though; just cuddles and stuff. If it came to sex, she'd freak out and worry about contraception.

Daisy is adorable here but come on Daisy you should be able to figure this out.

wacko, on 20 March 2013 - 05:46 PM, said:

Im thinking there attempt at starting a relationship did not go well. I dont think they had sex ether but paulo did get laid twice in one nite so its a possibility . And the look in his eyes wen he said "things got heated " looks sad like he tried but faild. Im expecting there was nothing good that happened in that room.

bluefox, on 22 March 2013 - 12:14 AM, said:

Nah it wasn't twice in one night, unless you mean all the times with Rachel. Plus I'd say that hot make outs are a pretty good thing to happen all things considered.

This post has been edited by Junior Boomer: 22 March 2013 - 12:36 AM

Well there goes my Lucy x Infinite Sadness ship.

an interesting page.

here's where ace probably expects me to say "boy, those makeouts with Paulo really cheered up Lucy huh"
but i think she's just... doing a good job hiding her feelings at the moment. since otherwise, sue would probably press. (since sue considers herself lucy's friend)

SpaceMouse, on 22 March 2013 - 04:14 AM, said:

I didn't care enough to think about what you think.