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Rap music, celebrities, sport stars, political mudslinging. This is all I see today and it drives me insane how the human race has fallen so far in so little time. No longer is the interest on education, it is on growing up and joining the NFL or the NBA or becoming a rapper - this is the fault of the children for being fucking idiots, the fault of the parents for allowing them to have such a stupid dream, and the fault of the media for making it seem simple to become any of them.

In truth, it is. Rapping isn't even music, you simply talk to a beat. Children today want the most money for the least work and I blame today's society for this; this is not how you become a productive human being. This is also because of how movie stars and singers are overblown today. I can bet you $50 that if Angelina Jolie wanted to become a man it'd be front page and twenty pages in comes the article about America banning all social security. I honestly couldn't give two shits who want the stupid Superbowl or who is playing in what movie or who sang some shitty modern song about drugs, niggas, and killing cops. Truthfully, neither should you.

On top of that these people make ludicrous amounts of money for no work. Give a better paycheck to teachers? No, let's have Brad Pitt buy another mansion and three cars or Snoop Dogg to get a jewel encrusted dick. Fuck the police officers and paramedics, doctors and lawyers, anyone who has a job that helps people. Entertainment is obviously better anyway, these retarded twats deserve all this money for nothing! It sickens me to my stomach that society condones this bullshit.

"Hello, I am running for mayor. Let me tell you about how I will cut taxes and reduce state income to make your life better instead of telling you about my campaign." Or "Hello, did you hear about my opponent? He fucked a gay man and ate a dog. Vote for me instead!" This is all I see come election and once again it boggles my mind how society can condone this. Are Americans retarded? Not only them, but the entire world seems to be.

Fashion is just as overblown as the rest of the stupid shit I've listed; those jeans with that designer label that cost an extra $100? It's normal jeans with a name sewed in. You got gyped! Honestly, if it looks okay and you can function in it why do stupid colors, exotic designs and names mean anything? It's just humanity being retarded again and making a big deal about nothing.

Don't even get me started on today's fashion and music. I don't have the patience to explain why it's shit, so feel free to discuss your own views on society or pick at mine.

First off:



JK


Secondly:

"Rapping isn't music"? Ha! Most of the old school rap has had more poetic content in it than most of the music from the 50's-70's. You're basing your opinion of rap solely on what the mainstream has to offer.

Also, this view that "work hard to get money" is one of the main reasons why the arts are failing in our education system nowadays. Part of the "work hard" philosophy is that the arts are useless, just so you know.

As for celebrities, do you really think that this hasn't been happening since the first major television star? In all honesty, today's celebrities are better because a higher percentage of them give back and participate in several charities.

Lastly:

I love how Susan is able to adapt to a rapidly changing society.

This post has been edited by Kaxbe: 22 February 2011 - 01:28 PM

@Susan:

Much as it pains me to look sycophantic on this one, I entirely agree. Society has got seriously screwed up somewhere along the way. The thing that truly terrifies me is the money - you hear of a pensions deficit on one hand, and then some crummy-ass sportstar's latest paycheck on the other. By the time that you're just adding extra zeroes for fun, you wonder - how the hell can you KEEP that much money? I mean, seriously. Once you've got $100m in your Swiss bank account, what possible good is there in taking more money and KEEPING it? I honestly cannot understand the mentality.

@Kaxbe:

As above. I'm very happy that celebrities are giving money to charities. But most of the time you hear "Yeah, 15% of this is going to charity," and they're laughing away with 85% of A LOT, PLUS massive goodwill for being such a big donor.

There should be a cap on the amount of wealth anyone can have. I'm telling you, if I win the lottery, I'm not keeping the lot tucked away somewhere. People need that shit.

This post has been edited by Yappy: 22 February 2011 - 01:35 PM

Kaxbe, on 22 February 2011 - 01:28 PM, said:

Why yes, becuase I am, in fact, discussing today's society. I am not talking about old school rap because it is not from today. Herp a derp derp.

Kaxbe, on 22 February 2011 - 01:28 PM, said:

They pretty much are nowadays, save literature and necessary (such as pottery and metal works or sculpting, etc) arts. Paintings today pretty much consist of bullshit that I have never even seen come close to a real image. It's more like stupid lines and shit like the artist threw up on the canvas. Fashion is overrated, as is acting (although that's not to say we don't need actors, they just make too much) and music has gone downhill. So yes, in effect arts are kinda useless.

Kaxbe, on 22 February 2011 - 01:28 PM, said:

Oh, I never said that. It just seems to me they're far more overblown today than they were back then. They give to charities? Sweetie, they raise money for charities. Beyonce ain't givin' away her botox money! If you really believe the money that goes to charities is from the good of a celebrity's heart or even theirs at all, you're in denial.

About the music thing: I see nothing wrong in trying to become a musician as a profession, but becoming a rapper might be different from producing some actual music. It is certainly possible to have success with music, if you have a lot of talent. But with rapping, its mostly kids who think they can get rid of school and start a music career without any talent or organization at all. Then they drop out of school because they think they can make money and be a rap star.

The thing with entertainment is that...well, it entertains people. What do teenagers rather talk about? Someone buying a new mansion or whatever or a lawyer that nobody knows? Its just normal that people want to talk about subjects they all know something about. That doesnt mean that this is the only thing they care about.

If Brad Pitt buys another mansion, doesnt he put money into the economy therefore giving more money available to teachers? Isnt that how it works?

With designer clothes, I agree, its retarded. But it doesnt affect me as I dont know a single person with real designer clothes.

DFA, on 22 February 2011 - 01:39 PM, said:

No, becuase a teacher's salary is set. It doesn't fluctuate as far as I know, it's determined by the school.

If the $850,000 Brad had spent on the mansion instead went to a school district, they could give out raises and buy new things.

Susan, on 22 February 2011 - 01:35 PM, said:

Of course, of course. Let's turn a blind eye to lesser known rappers who don't rap about sex and alcohol every other track on their CD.

Susan, on 22 February 2011 - 01:35 PM, said:

Yeah, but now you're kinda missing the point of the arts. Art is meant as a form of self expression and can provoke thought in others. Realism was only ever a huge importance in art back during Westernization of the world since the idea was that the painting would outlast the subject. Now that the world has changed, so has art. So yeah, there is more to art than "HERPA DERP, LOOK HOW ACCURATELY DRAWN I DREW THESE HERE FLOWERS IN THIS POT HERP." And pottery and metal works and sculpting are "necessary" arts? Pfft. Those three forms of art are getting the same kind of smack that drawing, painting, drama, and music programs in schools have gotten.

Susan, on 22 February 2011 - 01:35 PM, said:

Pfft. They do give to charities. They give their name. Celebrity = headlines. Headlines = publicity. They do more for charities than the celebrities of the past, that's for sure.

And "from the good of a celebrity's hear"? Don't be silly Susan, we all know that you don't believe anyone has a heart.

DFA, on 22 February 2011 - 01:39 PM, said:

Actually, rapping requires lyrical skill. One does have to have some basic knowledge of poetry since rap relies heavily on rhythm, thus the name "rap" which stands for "Rhythm And Poetry". And also, you're being too stereotypical here. Most kids drop out of school for much more serious and dangerous reasons than "becoming a rap star".

This post has been edited by Kaxbe: 22 February 2011 - 01:47 PM

susan wants her country back

humanity is always, always saying the state of everything today is the worst thing that's ever happened, and it used to be so much better X years ago. in one of my composers classes, we actually talked about this group in the early 1900s that was trying to revive the style of composing used in the 1820s, just because they objected to some of the "modern" (for the time) use of countermelody.

what _is_ music exactly? is a child banging on a drum music? does it require a melody? does it require someone to write it?
before you can go saying if something is music, you'll have to establish a definition for what is. modern rap actually has a fair bit going on - if you start musically dissecting a modern eminem song, you'll find he's doing some pretty crazy stuff involving secondary melodies going alongside the primary melody. these people are songsmiths and musicians; you just have to listen to what's there. the voice can be an instrument as well as any trumpet. i'm sure if we were to look at some of the "crappy" music from any era, we'd find people who just did the minimal effort or ripped someone else off.

politicians in the 1800s shot and killed each other over minor things. people broke out into fistfights in congress. sex always sells no matter what era - if you look at old newspapers from the 1800s america, you'll find just as many outrageous things about sex scandals and mocking what your opponent has done. we just think we see it more now, because there's overall more communication.

people in every era have done nothing to get a lot of money. oil barons. landowners. plantation owners. the church. pick an era, you will find people who are very publically known, and very rich, who do stupid things with their money. modern times hasn't made it any more prevalent, just more spoken about.
people pay for more information, so they get more information. everyone else follows suit. wherever the money is, people go, and others complain about how it used to be better.

we've advanced so much medically in the past even 40 years it's mind-blowing. the same diseases that killed people when our grandparents were our age have been _completely eradicated_. technology allows us to travel great distances in hours rather than months. to say society has fallen so much is crazy!
we haven't fallen, we've just gotten more vocal. and the more vocal everyone is, the more you hear.

tl;dr: same shit, different era.

Well then spacemouse, I guess humanity just sucks on a whole, doesn't it?

Susan, on 22 February 2011 - 01:54 PM, said:

Yup. Always and forever.

Good job everyone~ Great thread~ Let's all go home now.

Kaxbe, on 22 February 2011 - 01:45 PM, said:

Yes, but the thing Susan was talking about is kids thinking they can make it in this business, despite not having a lot of lyrical skills. Me being too stereotypical, well it does depend on who we're talking about - one of my friends actually did this, so its not completely impossible. Sure, it's not like every other person does it, but I think one in a hundred teenagers leaves school or tries to get kicked out, and these are the ones we're talking about.

SpaceMouse, on 22 February 2011 - 01:49 PM, said:

I'd say music is anything that is a rythmic arrangement of sound. It doesnt necessarily require a melody, I heard nice compositions only consisting of drums and percussion. When it comes to rap music, you have to differ between the rapper and the producer. As far as I know: In most cases, the rapper isn't the one who makes the beat and melodies in the background. People often have a producer to back them up with nice beats (Dr. Dre)

Minimal effort is relative. If you dont need more effort than you take to create a nice track, then its alright, as long as it sounds good, I dont see much problem with it. Ripping someone else off has recieved a new definition over the last 10 or 20 years, when sampling was introduced. Its still being done, and I dont see any problem with it. All samples are credited on an album. Its technically remixing, not "ripping off"....I also think its fun to hunt down samples used by groups like Daft Punk or similar.

sorry for going OT...

This post has been edited by DFA: 22 February 2011 - 02:13 PM

DFA, on 22 February 2011 - 02:06 PM, said:

Actually, it's way less than one in every hundred. Current education systems are doing a good job of beating into the minds of young people "HEY. GUESS WHAT. YOU'LL FAIL AT THIS." that most people don't even really try anymore, especially as you go more eastward in the United States, which has a higher pace of life in most of its urban areas.

Also, even though there is a mindset within the current generation that seems to be saying "You don't need to go to college to be successful" (and even though they're right), a majority of them don't even try for a job in the music field, instead opting for a form of work dealing more with social aspects of society and networking.

This post has been edited by Kaxbe: 22 February 2011 - 02:11 PM

I think your being a little too overly critical or today's society. While yes, you bring up some good points. I hope you realize that not everyone is the same, "Some" celebrities donate just for good will, "Some" Rappers don't just sing about bitches and sex and shit. "Some" Blah blah blah.

What I am saying is, give those people and chance and maybe learn more about them, well it's kind of impossible to learn about every person, but you get the idea. Society is declining, but I don't think it's declining as fast you believe it to be. Put your faith into your fellow man, you never know, right?

Art are useless, while I can't say I disagree, I am a little sad, since I went to an acting school, albeit stage performance, not television or movies. Unfortunately it's true. The media over-blows movies and television, so yeah no chances there. Paintings and such, I don't see any meaning in them anyway. I never could understand why so much hype was made over someone painting a big Campbell's tomato soup can, or the lines in a box or whatever.

Since I don't have enough time right now to say all I want to say, i'll end with this. try not to lose faith in society based on what we see today, because some of those people aren't in in wholly for themselves.

PS: I have a friend who wanted to join the NFL not because he thought it was easy, but because it's his dream to play football.

Oh, on another note: anything worth doing is worth working hard for.


Bitches.

OH NO THE DOWNFALL OF SOCIETY

This post has been edited by Kaxbe: 22 February 2011 - 02:15 PM

There's a lot of bad in the world, but there's a lot of good as well. Just because a few drops of water in the ocean are dirty doesn't mean the entire ocean is.

There are people out there, at this very moment, who are doing things for other people, asking nothing in return. There are people who do nice things for the sake of being nice, because they know it's worth it for it's own sake. There are people who are working together to cure disease, make life easier to live, discover new truths, make wonderful art, unravel past mysteries, explore society, and do countless other things to enlarge our understanding and help people.

check this out

This post has been edited by Starwatcher: 22 February 2011 - 02:53 PM

I like in a strange unintentional way Susan made a point with the very discussion we are having. While the topic targeted everything that's wrong we as a group chose to focus on rap music (is it good, bad, like all other art) and movie and music stars (what to do with all the magic money!) It's just what we care about and when you're young the world is a big places to think about.

The world (North America...only places I can be sure of 100%) is falling apart is because no one cares, or at least no one cares about anything remotely important. Egypt, Libya, etc. are exploding with protests again ruinous governments and I had to wait 15 minutes behind some dumb girl yelling (yelling???) at a store manager because there were no pink Ipods!

Sorry, do excuse me for responding to one issue at a time.

People are always going to bitch, no matter what circumstance they are in. Americans, for example, can be thankful that they have less significant things to bitch about compared to other places in the world. Once you are accommodated to a particular quality of life, the human tendencies to find something to complain about will occur inevitably.

Susan, I agree with what you are saying.

A saying which seems to sum up what is being said in this thread, "Life is a bitch and then you die"

This post has been edited by matty_batty0: 22 February 2011 - 03:15 PM

This message was brought to you by:

If I weren't at work posting from my phone......

@SpaceMouse: "Those who don't learn from the past are doomed to repeat it"...Yeah, some things never change.

@Purin: Yep, example: I was at a restaurant recently and a woman spent 10 minutes carrying on about a steak because: "Despite being good, she wasn't entirely thrilled with the sauce on the portabello mushrooms".

@Susan:

I wholeheartedly agree with the quality of art that has emerged nowadays, not because it isn't always realistic, but because it can usually be replicated in less than an hour. However this goes back to the less work, yet same reward expectations that has become predominant across the spectrum of labor and the arts. A museum nearby literally has two 4'x8' canvases next to each other that are each painted one color; one that is white and one that is green, with the titles white and green.

The wealth gap between classes has always existed, but not to the absurd degree it does today. Again, the Top 1 percentile of wealthy Americans hold about 95% of the country's wealth, I can't fathom why everyone seems so chill about this as this group continues to thrive while the rest of the country's inhabitants slowly die. It is true that some of these people do give money to charities, but not enough to justify the pile they are sitting on.

I keep hearing talk about how wonderful our generation is, but I have yet to see it. There are good people out there, but they seem to be too few or too busy to help out. Our modern fast-paced society is pushing the need to multitask like a machine and those who can't are simply left behind. The level of ignorance is painful and this can be attributed to a vast number of reasons, however some more notable ones are; The lack of actual news in the Mass Media and the common practice of turning to the internet to find information. The first one shouldn't need any explanation and Fox news isn't the only one guilty of this anymore. The internet is a wonderful bounty of information, if you know where to look. However, people have become too reliant upon the internet for answers and spend less time learning and retaining material since they know they can simply look it up whenever they need it. Exploring a subject just long enough to past a test and then to simply forget it isn't beneficial when a majority of that information is relevant to functioning in everyday life, especially if it involves a major field one is going into, such as becoming a Doctor.

I would continue to rant, but chances are this is all going to be ignored anyway and I have work to do, so take care of yourselves.

Actually, life goes on. I find that to be nice.

Quote

"Survival of the fittest."

We need people around to do those low classes jobs for us to maintain an upper class. So until you are willing to give up all the nice things in this world, you really can't say much regarding that.

It'll be a hollow victory when we wipe ourselves out due to wars over resources, religion and power.

Unless we build an ark!

The Nturtanyr, on 23 February 2011 - 01:12 AM, said:

We've been doing this slowly from the start.

Some of the states are already fighting against their government. Won't be long before we all kill ourselfs.

I think it's merely Middle Eastern states looking for proper representation and democracy. But whatever.

Wisconsin is going batshit crazy. Some of the democrats are fleeing the state.

Liiiiifffeee is meeaaaaaniiiiiingleeeeeesssss

Susan, on 22 February 2011 - 01:21 PM, said:

Susan, I have just gained some respect for you.

I'll just let this speak for itself.

I give up. All of you are too pessimistic and have shown me the error of my optimistic ways. Life is suffering. Life is pain. Life is a parade which has been rained.

Darn these kids and their rap music all high on marijuwana and what not. In my day we walked uphill 15 miles in the snow to get to college and then had to kill tigers for our food.

@Kaxbe No don't give into their evil ways thats what they want to tear you down and make you like them. Just remember no one got anywhere by being normal. Here this is for you.

This post has been edited by Rawrdinosaur: 23 February 2011 - 03:01 AM

Rawrdinosaur, on 23 February 2011 - 02:59 AM, said:

Grandpa! Go back into your grave!

By the way. Humanity made cheeseburger in a can. Humanity kicks ass! I'm a proud idealist and I believe in the goodness in humanity and all that malarkey. That's just how I am. You have your opinion, and I have mine, and in mine, human beings, while dumb sometimes, are good in the end.

This post has been edited by King: 23 February 2011 - 03:02 AM

Kaxbe, on 23 February 2011 - 02:20 AM, said:

Now THIS guy get's it.

Jerk, on 23 February 2011 - 02:16 AM, said:

HEY! Cheeseburgers are good! Lots of people would have sex for one.

Must insert the happy and or awesome.

The world is still terrible forever. Thread has shown me this.

Kaxbe, on 23 February 2011 - 03:46 AM, said:

I have an EASY way to show if the world is evil or not. Go up to a random guy and ask him this...Highlight below for my question...

Would you rape a woman, lock her up in your basement for a few months for her to get pregnant, and once the baby develops, rip open her womb with your bare hands to get to the baby, shove your rooster up its baby pussy (or ass), fuck it, shoot your sperm into it, throw it to the ground, pick it up, rip its eyes out, stitch its eye holes, mouth, nose holes, butt, and its penis/pussy closed, cut open a small hole in its back, tear out of all of its baby organs, crap in it, piss in it, stitch the hole closed, and bring it to the house of the parents of the woman you just raped, get their attention, stomp on it, kill the father, skin his skin off, wear it, rape the mother while wearing it, then kill her, then fuck her corpse, shit inside of her body, fuck it again, and then eat her body?

If they say no, then I believe they're good people. If they say yes, then maybe the world is a little messed up.

This post has been edited by King: 23 February 2011 - 03:57 AM

Kaxbe, on 23 February 2011 - 03:46 AM, said:

Its cliche to post this, but the best things in life are.

ILB, on 22 February 2011 - 03:38 PM, said:

Kaxbe, on 23 February 2011 - 03:46 AM, said:

It is pretty terrible though haha, I approach it this way, the world sucks so why not try and fix it?

At the risk of sounding way less cynical than I usually am: life in a modern, first world country, is pretty darned good.

People live longer than ever before. Science has eradicated diseases that once decimated entire generations (when's the last time you had to worry about a plague wiping out your village?). The current generations of Europeans and Americans can reasonably expect to live out their whole lives without the spectre of conventional or nuclear war in their backyards. Infrastructure is CRAZY advanced. Seriously. We have paved roads, working electric grids and water and sewage systems. Police patrol our streets and (generally) keep the peace. Firefighters keep our cities and towns from burning to the ground. In some places, sanitation workers come to your door and take your trash away for you.

Those who care to learn have access to more accumulated knowledge than any generation before today's. Heck, those who care to learn CAN. Being born to a farmer/banker/blacksmith/whatever is no guarantee that you will be locked into that profession for the rest of your life. Study, work hard, get into a university, and you can choose your own future. Can't afford it? Look for scholarships. Serve in the military. Or take out a loan. I'll admit, those aren't always appealing options, but they're still options. If you were born poor a few generations ago, you'd probably stay that way for life, and never have a chance to improve your station.

The major nations of the world try to get along. Usually. They keep closer diplomatic ties than in centuries past (interbreeding monarchs didn't work too well, amirite?). Scientists, doctors, etc. cooperate internationally for research and creative endeavors. Wealthier governments tend to donate aid to places hit by natural disasters (the 2010 Haiti earthquake, 2004 Indian Ocean tsunami, and 2005 New Orleans cleanup spring to mind). Private citizens of the EU, the Commonwealth, and the US provided sizable donations, too. For all its ills, the media was probably largely responsible for individuals' charity. On a smaller scale, people donate to charities of their choice, just because they think it's the right thing to do.

I don't want this to get way too long (too late) or too ranty (maybe also too late). Yeah, life isn't perfect. Yeah, entertainment usually aims for the lowest common denominator (but it beats Gregorian chants, right?). But life in my corner of the world isn't terrible, either. I can drive to the store without worrying about getting carjacked, or blown up by a roadside bomb. I have a say in electing my nation's government. And when I'm old, the government will hopefully take care of me, thanks to social security programs (HA HA. Fingers crossed).



tl;dr I sugarcoated a bit, but life could be way worse. Also, I know some of those points were made before, but I was on a roll.

Society isn't getting worse. It's just evolving into something you don't like. And it always will because things were always better a long time ago. Everything now always sucks. That's just the way people think. But ultimately we're headed in the right direction if you can think in objective terms.

This post has been edited by Scotch: 24 February 2011 - 01:58 AM

There will always be people saying society is getting worse and how previous generations were better than the current young people, I am only 18 and I already see that looking at kids today. Yes as a whole humanity is becoming less morally upright (by some standards) but the only thing we can do about it is to lead the best lives we can individually and let other people live there lives as they see fit. (on another note, I also dislike rap)

Jerk, on 22 February 2011 - 03:26 PM, said:

This message was made in part by viewers like

Kaxbe, on 23 February 2011 - 09:26 PM, said:

I still have trouble wrapping my brain around the fact that this dude is dead serious.