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So, now the people in charge of my school district are thinking about cutting music, theater, and art programs in favor of sports. This is total bullshit. People don't seem to understand the fact that the arts are just as important in education as athletics. My school's athletic coaches seem to think the marching band "gets in the way" of sports activities, but they don't seem to realize the fact that a high school varsity football team without a marching band looks pretty fucking stupid.
Personally, my school's music program is the only thing keeping me sane in this world. I've spent my entire school career, elementary to high school, in the music program. I'm hoping to even take it and get a degree in music education to become a music teacher. Not only does cutting music mess up my plans for my future, It greatly reduces my chances of even getting into college without four years of marching band and indoor percussion on my resume.

TL;DR: People are cutting the arts in favor of sports in public schools. Your thoughts?

that must be a way for the government to combat obesity in kids. governments are giving real importance to this issue. I think its retarded, but it reflexes how's the world nowadays

JPEspinoza, on 15 March 2011 - 10:33 PM, said:

But only the people who already are athletic are going to do sports, not the obese people.

This post has been edited by Cadence: 15 March 2011 - 10:47 PM

What? WHAAAAAAT!!!?!!! Cut. The Arts.

Kill them. Kill them until their blood runs dry across the pavement, until their dismembered torsos rip free from the nooses around their bloated necks, until their eyes turn inside out from the putrefaction of time.

The arts are what keep people alive. Without it, we are but mindless, putrid fleshbags, wandering through a meaningless existence.

Cadence, on 15 March 2011 - 10:45 PM, said:

Athletics also counts for Physical education classes.

Its not that I don't like the arts its just I feel that more science classes would be nice. Though I might be biased because my school has a horrible art teacher that I hate with an undying passion. Also I like science.

I can understand taking away from Arts, its not the most... well... marketable[?] skill in the world, and in day to day life not the most useful either.
But giving it all to sports gets on me, sports is even farther into the extremities of day to day and marketability then art. Its not that it isn't useful, its just not useful in most jobs that are worth doing and cutting art, something that is highly respectable and worthwhile, even if money cannot be made off of it, for Sports which is about the same with the probability of physical damage kinda irks me.

TL;DR
Boooo, send it to math or science but not sports.

I love sports and math and science and all that but art is an important part of a growing child's education! Even though i hate the arts! Honestly, Music and Art and theater are all culturally important thing to be teaching today's youth!

Great. Your children will be even more retarded than they would've been anyway.

Brocky, on 15 March 2011 - 11:26 PM, said:

Say whaaaaaat

This post has been edited by Cadence: 16 March 2011 - 12:11 AM

Well, there are those that argue that the arts teachers are a bunch of mumbling faggot pussies, and those who would say that the sports teachers are a bunch of apelike cro-magnons who can't walk and think at the same time.

This post has been edited by Sammy: 15 March 2011 - 11:48 PM

As someone who can't draw or even read music, I wish they had taught me how to do that in school when I was young. That's the only real gap in my education.

You may think it's not important, but I've had to draw cells for biology and it's no fun not being able to provide an accurate and neat drawn image quickly. It would have been easily correctable while I was young, too.

They should give you fingerpaint for the cells.

I remember taking an art class not 2 years ago. All that happened was the teacher told me I was doing a shit job or I did something wrong and she would never tell me what I did wrong just that it was wrong. It was the first class that I had ever dropped.

Ahah funny thing is, I have one of the poorest schools in the country and my principal still realizes how important the arts are. Hell to be in southern TN and have more money for the arts because they KNOW our sports suck is really kinda funny.

But yes tl;dr, arts are important, m'kay?

That's why here (England) my school's become Arts based.

Cadence, on 15 March 2011 - 11:45 PM, said:

I just dont enjoy those things, while at the same time appreciating their significance.

I'm pretty sure that's the least offensive way to express that thought.

If you have to make budget cuts, you can divide things into essentials and non-essentials.

Art classes and physical education classes are essential. Marching bands and sports teams are not.

My school spent plenty of money on buying 20 or so Ipads. And we still have plenty of Arts programs. Go New Jersey Public Education systems

This post has been edited by DangerIce: 16 March 2011 - 02:33 AM

wacko, on 16 March 2011 - 02:12 AM, said:

Despite being a 7-year athlete here in the States (3 middle school and 4 high school years), I couldn't agree with you more. What happens here (at least in my district) is in an unwritten order: first they cut benefits for seniors that cost the school money; then come freshman sports; then publications, art, and extra curricular courses (most notably driver's ed); then they might crack down on varsity sports. I don't even live in a football town, but they spend so much just to maintain the football team... that they just might let the whole school rot in hell before they take it away.

The main problem here is that despite all the changes in culture, the arts are still seen as something that cannot produce a viable career. One may ask, however, why sports are not seen as something that cannot produce a viable career. This is because athleticism is equatable with aesthetics and charisma, something that is highly valued in the business world.

Also, schools have the responsibility of instilling children as part of the community. The easiest way to do this is through sports. If a sports team does well, it gives a sense of pride to the school, and thus spreads through the community. It is no surprise that the schools which have teams that always win are in the towns or areas with the closest communities. Most of the arts don't have this advantage because, quite frankly, the arts are just too diverse. Sports are one activity that can easily become huge.

Now, that is not to say that the arts in a town cannot become huge. I came from a marching band town myself. The band was the pride of the town. Why? Because it was allowed to grow huge. Why was it allowed to grow huge? Because more people could identify with it. My school was actually the first marching band in Northwest Florida (and Florida is a huge marching band state in its own right). Also, the band participated in several competitions, once again, instilling that sense of pride in the community. When the band is doing good, the other programs benefit, including sports.

So don't think that it's too bad that sports are getting attention. And also don't think that I don't support the arts; I'm a huge supporter of them. However, as I said earlier, schools have a responsibility of instilling a sense of pride in their students, and it's extremely difficult to do that with the arts alone.

The reality is that arts are not really something which most people make a career out of; that being said, they do teach useful skills which are applicable in other ways. Sports, conversely, are useless for anything but getting kids off their lard asses and, frankly, I'd rather people just pay for their sports out of pocket (seeing as it is an out of school activity, not something which is done during school hours) and spend the money on you know, REAL EDUCATION.

We also have to remember that sports gain a profit for the school depending on how big it is. You can charge admittance and food at a football game, but most people aren't willing to shell out 5 dollars to see high schooler art.

Another thing to remember is that sports will always have a high sign up rate while band has a different rate of sign up depending on the class currently enrolled. So as an administrator sports is a safe bet with the only backlash being some angry phone calls from parents who are dismissed with budget cuts as an answer.

But the same could be said for music. I know personally that my school makes a monstrous profit every year from music and drama performances alone. More, in fact, than it does from sporting events and teams.

Rawrdinosaur, on 16 March 2011 - 04:55 AM, said:

Yeah but this is always bullshit. Sports don't make money for schools, they lose money.

It would be a pretty embarrassing gap in education if pretty beach girls asked you why you sucked so much at volleyball, though. Some skills have nothing to do with making money and yet are very important to have.

More money to be had in sports.

Titanium Dragon, on 16 March 2011 - 06:23 AM, said:

I wouldn't know the figures nor would I know if I'm getting my money's worth, but in order for students in my school to participate in sports, we pay a steep "sports" fee of $150-250. As a Cross Country and Track guy, I see very little of this money and most of our gear is far out of date (until now in which we used some of that pool to maintain the track with new patches and paint).

Arts and Music are indeed one of the most valuable classes you might take in the school. Belive it or not, but people still need to know some culture.

Since I have arts class in my school, most of the school don't argue with me when I say that Arts, Ethics and Politics are the most crucial subjects in the school since they actually make you THINK for yourself.
Ofcourse that goes with other subjects aswell but you won't really need most of those things in life but its good to have a good basic knowledge of those.
Atleast the could've done like Atatürk (in Turkey) did and just separate the religion from schools...but not arts
(don't get me wrong, but I don't think religion has any place in schools, that's what churches and mosques, and others, are for)

I do not like how some people separate "arts" from "music". Why, that is a terrible way of saying that music is not an art form. ^_^

Either way, as people have mentioned before, education in creative subjects such as the arts give you benefits in other areas, even though very few people end up accomplished writers, musicians, composers, painters or architects (then again, the number of truly successful athletes is probably just as small). For instance, being trained in music helps out greatly in subjects such as languages and mathematics, and also gives you a definite boost to your charisma (it is easier to catch subtleties in body language and accentuation when you know the difference between an A Flat Minor and an E9, which makes you a better listener and comforter than somebody who does not). Writing helps out in athletics, and also it enhances your grasp of your vocabulary - something that is frightfully important. Also, all artistic subjects give you a boost to your creative skills, which may well turn out to be of great assistance when trying to solve problems in, say, engineering, mechanics and logistics, or just in simple, everyday communication and discourse.

Removing an education in arts because it does not have any practical use is not only silly, but also wrong.

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I didn't mention that music isn't an art, it is. But in school where I was attending we had Arts and Music Culture as two different classes, so I apologize if you misunderstood what I wrote.

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On this I can agree 100% because the perception of the world around and to be able to draw / construct / built is purely known from Arts class. And I am from technical school where mayor course is Architecture where that stuff counts and you have to make a living from it. Unless you heard of a architect or a an engineer with no perception of things around him.

All other subjects are just as important. You use math everyday. Some people want to be scientists..are they not important enough? All i'm saying is that the normal curriculum is as important as the arts.

I think the arts are great. I think sports are great. None of them should be cut. I wouldn't be fair to anyone, but you also have to see if from their perspective. Arts in schools make the least money, and are last on the list to receive funding. The first causing the latter. Sports are on the top of the list. This is because schools hope to see those people shine, and go on to the pros thereby making the school more money. It's not easier to get into a pro sport, you need just as much skill, and maybe more to be in say the NFL. It's just, more people get there because the rosters always demand fresh young people who are better than people who joined even just a year or two ago. Actors however can act for as long as they live, their cycles don't change as fast. (Will Smith is finally making Men in Black III )

Lastly it's a little insulting that people think of sports as if it isn't an art form as well. Well it is. It's a way for those guys and gals to express themselves in their own way. Through their bobbing and weaving in the boxing ring, using their fists to talk, boxers are actually pretty emotional. Then theres basketball, they truly love their game. Willing to give it all everyday to show everyone who is best. They sweat, and bleed just like a painter....they do it even more so than a painter. You get the picture. (Pun not intended)

So just because you don't play sports don't knock it.

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This post has been edited by SandroOfTheSix: 10 January 2012 - 09:56 PM

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Sorry, I did not mean to knock it. ^_^

That said, I do disagree with the notion that sports are an art form. This is not to demean them at all, and honestly, I think some forms of modern arts should not be considered to be either. But there is a great difference between making a beautiful sculpture and making a great effort on the playing field. It is similar to how I would not consider chemistry an art form, because they are of different worlds. This is not to say that these cannot be used in art, and that there are not grey areas - choreography, for instance, would be greatly helped if people who are talented at sports did them, and vice versa. But it would feel surreal to me if sports suddenly changed status to be artistic (consider it the other way around: Would you call a classical pianist an athlete?).

I think it's crap that they are cutting recess from schools. This might seem off topic but it's the same thought, they are so worried about the kids with their school work that they are cutting out a vital part of Children's lives in making them healthier. Early childhood is were we gain systems and routines that will follow us through life. Kids need to get out and play because if you ask me, it's up to them how well they do in school. By taking away rec time you will not increase their intelligence, you will only have an class room of hyper children who can't calm down cause they have no where to release their built up energy. This is why kids are so quickly written off as A.D.D and A.D.H.D and such.

Actually the real reason why children are so quickly written off as ADD or ADHD is because school systems do not match the changes that have occurred in society recently. Schools which actively engage the students in a similar way as the media does do better. And it seems that Western America is doing a better job of this. If you were to look at the number of prescribed cases of ADD and ADHD, you'll notice a sharp increase starting in Oklahoma which only gets worse and worse as you go further east. In fact, most of these kids that are diagnosed with ADD and ADHD turn out not to have it at all when taken to another doctor. They are misdiagnosed. These kids are just not being engaged like they would be if they were in front of a screen.

Classes today are analog, just one person lecturing a group of people. To kids these days this is "boring", and they get distracted with something they deem more important and/or interesting.

Glee, anyone?

Now, really, that's stupid.
Everyone's different, you can't suppose everyone loves sports and hate arts >_<

Well, looks like I'm a little ill informed. Um, do a lot of American schools take funding from outside sources rather than taxes?

Sports are not a form of Art. Art is about expressing creativity, emotions or instilling emotions in others for either entertainment purposes or other. Sports are more a fulfillment to enjoyment or physcial needs.

Even though I'd much rather the money be going to a more important class, if I had to choose, I'd rather the money go to the athletics department because as Titanium Dragon mentioned earlier, it gives children an opportunity to get off their asses and get some exercise.

On a related note a lot of schools are starting to add video game design classes which I believe falls under the arts.

@ ILB well put sir

@ nturtanyr question for you, people arent allowed to express themselves with physical activity? then i guess the olympics arent art. sorry gymnasts what abouy martial arts?

@Lvl50fighter please give your definition of art because everyones definition is different. I don't consider sports an art because it doesn't have a meaning to it or add anything to society.

I shall.....as soon as I'm outta work lol

Rawrdinosaur, on 16 March 2011 - 09:05 PM, said:

You could argue that all art doesn't add anything to society. If a painter, when putting heart, soul, time, and effort onto a piece is considered art, then why wouldn't an athlete, also performing a step-by-step process, with all of the heart, soul, time and effort that said painter just placed into his work be considered an art-form?
If I were to say that all art has no meaning, would you reconsider your stance if you were to stand from my point of view? I just find it odd that you can claim to say that it has no meaning or adds anything to society without any back up.

Moosack, on 16 March 2011 - 11:31 PM, said:

By this definition anything is an art. If I post on this thread with an awesome passion and much zeal by your definition I am creating art. I feel this definition is too vague. Having passion for your work doesn't make something an art.

Rawrdinosaur, on 17 March 2011 - 12:05 AM, said:

NO NO NO WE WILL NOT HAVE THIS DEBATE AGAIN.

Ace, on 17 March 2011 - 12:40 AM, said:

DEBATE TIME GOGOGO

Edit: Inb4 quote pyramid

This post has been edited by Brocky: 17 March 2011 - 12:44 AM

I support the existence of both but, taking Texas as an example of this, they shouldn't completely sacrifice the arts programs in order to fuel football and other sports. I mean, if there were a way that those sports could support the arts somehow by bringing in money it wouldn't be so bad, but it's really just not a good idea to pool all your money into football and such in order to promote school pride among parents.

Great: it makes the parents and kids enthusiastic and provides a good source of exercise but honestly? They really need to exist together. Sports shouldn't take more of a priority than arts should unless they could find a way to make it profitable, one to support the other and such.

The Nturtanyr, on 16 March 2011 - 08:04 PM, said:

This right here is my definition of art. Expressing creativity and what not. This says it perfectly. What I want to know is why do you think that an athlete isn't doing that in their field? Example Micheal Jordon. He used his skills and his knowledge of the game to change it. On an off the court. He expressed himself through basketball, he poured his life and soul into the game, he installed emotions into people when he showed during every game how devoted he was to his "art". This is also entertainment for other people to enjoy and watch him. Another example Muhammad Ali. He poured his soul and all his passion into boxing. He changed the way ALL boxers learn the sport and move in the ring. He inspiring many people to follow their dreams, no matter what that dream was, by doing what he could at his "art"

Sports are not just a fulfillment to enjoyment, you even contradicted yourself. Because the former of your statement disproves the latter. Just because you don't like/play sports doesn't make it less legitimate than say drawing.

To be honest that guy who made the painting of that Campbell's soup can? WTF? It's a can..I don't see the emotion or creativity behind that. no can I see anyone finding entertainment in that.