Bittersweet Candy Bowl

Save us Daisy you’re our only hope

Save the soul society…Daisy!!

Please do. You all seem to forget that Lucy told Paula she didn’t want him to walk away from Mike, and is being a huge jerk by suddenly manipulating him.

We’re also forgetting that Mike just double downed on blaming Lucy meaning all of his apologies and talking about reconciliation meant nothing.

Or the fact that he was trying to lead on James despite having a girlfriend

And DAISY OF ALL PEOPLE needs to sit down considering she kissed Mike knowing full well he was with Sandy and knew everything.

Someone needs to check on Mike but not DAISY

@Freyja who’s it going to be who checks, then?

Abbey? Cause isn’t he sitting with the other group? He’s got to see this going down too and gotta see something is up

Especially with August now back inside

Bruh I would take Sue or even Amaya over Daisy. Hell his sister? Abbey?? Any members of the track team?? Not the girl who still had a crush on him through a whole relationship, breakup and caved when he showed the slightest interest

If Daisy goes it’s just going to cause more issues because of her thing with Mike. I don’t think she would do anything but i don’t think Mike needs to be checked on by the girl he basically he cheated on his girlfriend with.

@Freyja ok but my point is that we have no reason to believe anyone else is going to go check right now, which is what Mike needs. Sue is telling Paulo to not ask questions, Paulo just backed down, Abbey isn’t even in this chapter. None of the other characters have shown any inclination of going out.

True but i don’t think the girl, he again cheated with, should be going to check.

What if Mike tries it again because he wants to feel wanted??

I trust Paulo to keep boundaries not Daisy.

Mind you Daisy was the only one in the group to openly agree with how Mike treated Lucy initially. She only flipped because his behavior got worse and after Lucy clarified how she felt about it all.

She also told him she didn’t want him to do it so she is kind of being a jerk.

she really doesn’t. it’s pretty clear that Paulo’s not happy with the decision and because of that there’s no guarantee he’ll keep it up for long. if anything, I think betrayal is inevitable, and that would be worse than just letting him go without comment. never mind whatever Daisy’s thinking there

It probably is. But she did though, from a few chapters back sue and Paulo in their own ways made it clear that they rather be around Lucy than make just based on how he was acting. Then there was the Halloween episode when everyone just had it with him.

I get things happened in between but the one thing hasn’t changed is Mike insistence that he’s innocent in all of this

He shouldn’t bend the knee like that

That’s 100% manipulative and guilt tripping and I hope Daisy helps steer Paulo back in.

He honestly doesn’t owe her anything, since she told him NOT to drop him. So overall, no promise or word is kept since she declined

It was a transparenty bullshit offer anyway.

she’s pretty strong, she could just… pick up Paulo and carry him outside

He really didn’t promise or owe her anything, that’s what I feel like

He asked, she said no in double down. So nothing was kept or made in place

Part of it comes down to the fact that literally seconds prior, she gave him the express permission to “Go see him.” It’s extremely manipulative. It genuinely would have been less egregious if she had said the word without giving him the emotional whiplash, allowing him to show his concern before basically telling him to suppress it for her. Not even a matter of Lucy being in the wrong for setting boundaries, she’s very much allowed to do that. But this specific way of going about things feels explicitly designed to test people’s loyalty to either her or Mike, and it’s a really shitty thing to do.

I mean to be fair she is bringing back an empty promise that she herself declined, then tells him to go see him and immediately hits him with the “promise” he never agreed to after she declined. I understand your point tho that it’s clear Mike and Lucy having the same mutuals wouldn’t work because it’ll only bring drama to the table. The title makes sense now this is basically who sides with who.

To me Lucy is trying to call Paulo out for being a hypocrite on how quick he switches up. I honestly still think it’s pretty lame of her to guilt him after their that interaction went negative with them and Paulo got closer to Mike. What I believe is that Lucy didn’t want Paulo to drop Mike just because she says so, but because of how terrible Mike has been and that’ll be the right thing to do. But bringing it up there now just makes her look manipulative, that’s a tactic to make someone feel bad and not question them. This just feels like a personal attack towards Mike because she has now the idea reinforced that Mike should go through it after what Augustus pushed on Mike. But to me it just feels like Lucy is pulling old habits this is like stringing Paulo to make him feel on edge, just giving him the mindset someone has to stay and the other go for good.

THIS

theres kind of this unspoken subtext implication that lucy was/is in therapy at some point (??) what i would give to see one of the main four kids in therapy in a chapter

I don’t think Lucy will feel happy at the table still. These friendships are going to feel so fake.

so only Lucy’s allowed to change her mind, gotcha

Reddit Mike fans (for your health, DON’T go to the Bittersweet Candy Bowl sub-reddit, that place is rancid) and Patreon Lucy fans are duking it out for the world’s biggest copium award.

Oh god I can only imagine how bad Redditiors are about Mike. Even as someone who overall likes Mike and hopes he gets to a better point in his life, he has made a lot of mistakes in his life that he needs to answer for. He is not innocent, not a paragon, and far from infallible. There’s a lot of nuance to his characterization, and don’t fault anyone for disliking the character despite not personally feeling that way. But on Reddit… ehhhh, I’m guessing it’s a lot more black and white mentality which is just… not how this comic operates.

they are to her, she dropped them all. no matter how they tried to reach her…she is joining the table to get Augustus friends on the other table and to hurt Mike

@SomeColourMage Can you point out where I said that? Paulo can change his mind, but he’d be a huge hypocrite for it. That doesn’t mean he can’t still do it. He can, it’s his choice. That’s why I said “think before you speak.” Don’t say things you don’t mean or will regret later.

@Steven Well… it’s reddit so I don’t expect much. Copium about what though, we’re just discussing our personal opinions on the situation? No one is 100% right or wrong here. It’s just how relationships work.

he would not, in fact, be a hypocrite. I’ve been over this before, after the fight they had over it, and other following interactions, there is no reasonable expectation that what he offered continues to apply. was he dumb for offering it? yes. but that doesn’t change that it was effectively refused. and pairing it with telling him to go see Mike, then playing that conversation, is gross, manipulative, bullshit

and if we’re going to play “think before you speak”, how about “I don’t want to be around you or them anymore!”? sounds like everybody would be right to just not accept Lucy returning (they shouldn’t, but it shows that words can in fact be retracted)

Look if you can’t see why there /would/ be reasonable expectation, that’s not my problem. I’ll just leave it at that.

That’s 10000% what’s going on. Lucy isn’t a monster but she’s terribly insecure and unwell and is very black and white with her worldview. You’re either her friend or Mike’s. You’re either in love with her or you hate her.

I mean the whole chain of events happened cause Lucy couldnt take no for an answer …because mike had moved on from her AFTER she rejected him first after he jumped from a cliff to save her life….

@Snowstar I think they’re a troll. Apparently you can block people, if you need to do that

Aah yes, people with different opinions are trolls and you can block them to stay in your comfortable little echo chamber

My claim that Lucy is the antagonist of the show isn’t that farfetched at this point huh?

Joking jab aside i want to say that i do respect your comments

Even though we share very different opinions I appreciate that you are willing to call out bs when you see it and you are a lot more level headed with your responses then i am

I think a big part of it is that everyone gets their turn as the antagonist of other people’s story, despite the comic as a whole not really having a traditional antagonist beyond Alej. And up until this point, I often read Mike as the more antagonistic character, with Lucy as more of the catalyst. A lot of Lucy’s conflicts up until this point read to me more as self-destructive. This is a very different, more vindictive side of Lucy and I’m not personally a fan.

Everybody taking a turn to be the antagonist to someone else is a good way to look at this comic

They all had moments they aren’t proud of

and Daisy will absolutely dump Paolo for being a simp like that#

he is worried for Mike cause he knows the whole drama and David and James were supposed to be with Mike, Paolo sees lucy coming to the table without her and mike making peace and James clearly hostile to his friend…People dforget that Mike has been for paolo Always…literally every time he has the need for a friend, even after he beated him up for lucy and all…

This is a really great analysis. Like obviously, Lucy is not in a great head-space after what happened outside. There’s just so many factors to all of it, and all the people involved. There’s no way for it to not be messy.

I don’t want people to check up on him because I want him to become emotionally unstable, so he’ll snap at Sandy and break up with her. The best outcome in my opinion is him doing something stupid and Lucy somehow stumbling upon him right before or after he does something.

@Ethan how has Mike being emotionally unstable helped him at all? Like, ever? Or anyone else? The best outcome is for someone to intercept him NOW (while there’s still a chance) and stop him from spiraling before he does something stupid

@Ethan that happened in eternal flame and im sure you know how that ended 😭

its more likely that Daisy dumps Paolo for being a Simp

@Panchonimus Do you really think she would do that? Or are you just trying to be inflammatory?

@Snowstar887 I feel like that little snippet, if you assume their family dynamic has been like that for a while, can help explain a lot of Mike’s behavior. (Or maybe I’m reading too much into it) When you feel like you have to be perfect to be loved…it means you might start trying to hide your flaws or things that upset you, you’re going to implicitly tie your worth to external validation…

I think it’d be nice if it was someone not as deeply involved with the friend group… it feels like Mike needs some kind of clean break. If it’s any of the people who were romantically interested in him, couldn’t it end up making him go into the same behavior he used on Lucy in eternal flame? Like, leaning on them romantically when he doesn’t mean it, but he just wants to hold on to someone…

there is a point that someone who’s had a crush on him might not be able to help as well, but at the same time it might actually expose his problems better, which would be better in the long run as it makes it clearer what needs to be done. Mike and Lucy are quite alike, they both bottle up their issues until they go off, the main difference is that Lucy traditionally has a shorter fuse (Mike got a lot worse about that, but Lucy’s trauma has made it easier to accidentally blow her up, it feels close to even now tbh). but Paulo’s observed that causes the same problem when it comes to trying to help; he can’t help them, because they refuse to talk to him

also I get the feeling Mike hasn’t hit rock bottom yet… it did take Lucy about a month of spiralling before she jumped, and while December was the main instigator it was also a pretty complex run of emotions that involved too late apologies and plans to completely upend her life. Mike’s probably not gonna immediately go self-harm just because of today

you kidding Daisy has always been Mikes friend…and im sure she is not happy to see her BF being warped around Lucys finger like that…specially in such a manipulative way

didnt she literally 3 seconds ago blush about augustus which made paulo insecure?

this is the first time lucy is pushing the him or me - bc she was so confident itd be him every time chosen

but hes been horrible to literally everyone including daisy and lucy has seen it - it took mike saying and doing some flat bs that drove this

but ya i do see daisy really going either way shes deffo furthest from camp lucy and deepest in camp mike but im js thats asking her to go against the group’s decision at this point

she was firmly in camp paulo but abby and everyone else convinced her to shit talk him

@Elmanii I still have a hard time ascribing malicious intent to Lucy like that. Could this just be her being hypervigilant about who is/isn’t trustworthy by testing loyalties and not caring about what it does to Mike?

Only time will tell by the end of this chapter.

It can go either way, if she’s just trying to find out who’s trustworthy to her, without ill intent that’s understandable.

However if she does intend to make Mike suffer the way she did, while testing loyalties….

Then I do hope no one makes excuses for her actions, should the worst possible thing happen to Mike, while been isolated.

Oh god we’ve returned to “Mike/Lucy is the mastermind behind it all” again.

But if we take this on stride, same goes for Mike by directly attacking all her insecurities, physically grabbing her and screaming at her when she tried to diffuse. Not caring for what happened to her after she left in the middle of heavy snow. Mike didn’t just say things, he acted BEFORE December and afterwards too. He avoided her, ignored her, treated her like a nuisance and even YELLED in the middle of class when the groups were being assigned (which mind you, they wouldn’t have even been assigned together anyways had he not made such a public fuss). I’d call that straight-up bullying. He bullied her to the point where she thought she was a parasite in everyone’s life and was better off dead. Does that make Lucy justified? Why would she feel empathy when the shoe is on the other foot now? He did start first with the deliberate, calculated malice. And now is too much of a weasel to even meaningfully owe up to it.

Now, taking away the paragraph with this sort of thinking that (in my opinion) is way too extreme-

They both have shown similar faults in different stages of their life. But now the stakes have changed. Mike’s wallowing in so much self-pity and half-hearted accountability, that he’s having the world’s most insane “gifted/golden kid” meltdown in history. His need for fleeting yet familiar adoration is so bad that he’s practically turning himself away from the very real support system he has with Paulo for example, because change (including the positive type) has always been scary as hell for him.

And Lucy is so exhausted about not being able to fully heal from her problems with Mike, that now she’s ran out of giving even more grace while also incapable of fully opening up with her friends. Isolating herself from them until now to avoid giving grief that now everyone (including her) needs to face. With the fact that showing vulnerability is always the spot that gets her to shut off from the important conversations way too easily.

Some growing pains like these are /horrendous/ but I honestly believe that saying either Lucy or Mike is intentionally malicious like this is very reductive with the problems at hand & at their very core imho

Mike is valid in needing a friend and garnering a support system that holds him accountable while also heavily supporting him through changes that he’s made clear he’s too terrified to make.

Lucy is also valid in wanting better boundaries, rebuilding trust with friends who will care and also keep people to their word. Even if it means having to learn further flexibility herself and start cracking the egg open on the things that are clearly still hounding her and affecting her mental state.

Mike told Sandy, IN PERSON, that he wished Lucy was dead.

ougghh the interactions that have happened in the group that not all of them know about… basically the entire double down chapter. i’m so intrigued to see how it all plays out

Man these 16 year old girls with their PTSD and their conniving- Uuuhhh—… Damn, I left my notes. Guess Lucy masterminded, manipulated, girlbossed her way into taking them. Dang it!

man all these people who don’t believe in revenge or using manipulative language

for fuck’s sake being a victim does not grant you a pass and this is only making everything worse for everyone

@SomeColourMage pretty sure they’re talking about the few who have concluded that Lucy is irredeemably evil.

Joking aside, I don’t think it’s vengeful to hold somebody accountable. Mike being a victim of Sandy’s cheating and social expectations (from friends & family) does not grant him a pass either.

Lucy has her gloves off right now, but had Mike owed up to his words and actions properly when Lucy and himself had their one-on-one conversation while going back home months ago, MAYBE this wouldn’t have happened. Honestly, Lucy snapping being the tipping point for a lot of people makes me a little queasy.

Mike deserves grace, but not from the people he’s wronged consistently. And viceversa with Lucy.

and Lucy is now obstructing that grace. this is why people are getting annoyed at it

you’re right, Mike does not get a pass, and I never claimed he did, him getting into trouble for his actions was an inevitability. but bringing him down this low does not make things better, or create any sort of path for recovery. if it did then Lucy would be a lot better than where she is now, she’s experienced the exact same feelings of isolation and abandonment. it does not particularly help Lucy either, as if she needs to guilt trip one of the people she has trust issues with into siding with her, then she doesn’t have that trust. Paulo’s clearly not happy with this, and the possibility of him doing something that will damage his relationship with Lucy further increases from this

this is really not good for anybody

Is the grace obstructed by Lucy’s words, or by Paulo flip-flopping? Even if he has technically offered this “say the word” to Lucy, the person he has had the steadiest rapport with has been Mike. If he feels Mike’s actions outweigh the support and friendship he’s willing to show him, that’s on Paulo and Paulo alone. Lucy isn’t being graceful about Mike, but Paulo has enough resillience to act on what he thinks is right.

by Lucy’s words. I’m sorry, but if you pull out the “you can do this…. but what about (earlier thing)?”, you are being manipulative. Paulo’s response to it is not right either, but we can see what he was going to do before Lucy pulled that

Paulo had the determination to physically remove himself from interacting with Lucy back at Burgertron. And even told her to her face that what she was doing sucked, even if he knew what he said previously wasn’t right either and that it was a heavily loaded conversation on his part. He’s either easily swayed by his friend’s emotions (thus making him unreliable when situations come at odds) at best, or is spineless in following through the commitments he promises in spurs of emotion at worst (both to Lucy AND Mike in this situation). Yes, Lucy is harsh and her words to Paulo have a capacity of having great sway (especially when worded the way she does).

But only if he lets her. Which if I was Mike, I feel like this would majorly freakin’ SUCK after being mutual emotional lifelines to each other for some time. Lucy’s words are having the impact that they do because deep down, it seems Paulo right now is valuing that more than his concern over Mike.

I understand where you’re coming from though, I cannot see it but it doesn’t make it any less valid, interesting or insightful so we’ll have to agree to disagree. Thank you so much for sharing and for the interesting debate!

this whole drama, people like to pretend is cause Mike kissed her…yes that was wrong…but this all Drama was because Lucy could take a ‘no’ for an answer from mike…the guy people also forget jumped a cliff to save her life…to the poin he after months of her harassment and their friends trying to force ship them told her He hated her….and the girl was unestable enough that being rejected made her want to kill herself……and people honestly want Mike to get beaten and basically canceled so many time…something he has gone throuh

i get that this situation is hard, nuanced, and uncomfortable to read but uhh. these characters are being very human right now (which is funny because cats) and human interactions and disagreements are ALMOST never as clear cut as someone is right and someone is wrong, someone is the manipulator/aggressor and someone is the victim. there is a lot more context here,,, and has been in every interaction the whole chapter. maybe we can accept that these characters are just flat out complicated? and make complicated choices off of each other that aren’t inherently right or wrong all the time. idk at the end of the day this is all not that deep but i see how the humanness in these characters elicits some very emotionally charged responses some weeks and it truthfully befuddles me and worries me at times

@Aria willing to bet that some people really identify with one character (case in point: I see a lot of myself in Mike. I like to think I’m more mature though 😅) so when they see maximalist takes on how xyz is bad (or something like that), they take it personally and are trying to defend what they see as an extension of themselves

Hell, it’s probably why I’m so insistent on “you guys, that boy needs help or he’s going to hurt himself.” Don’t want to see a guy I identify with think that he’s alone and hurt himself

she throwed him to the curb, refused his promise and ignored him for months…she is doing this not cause she wants him around or cares but to use him to hurt Mike, and yeah this will end up breaking Paolo and Daisy up as the manipulation is clear….that and Daisy was always Mikes friend

i can see why you would come to that conclusion, but it relies on a lot of inferences and assumptions that go beyond the face value of this interaction. you could be right! but i don’t feel like we have all the information to know that for sure yet. but yes lucy’s behavior towards paulo has been umm not great lately. their relationship is especially complicated historically

@Aria That’s what I’m feeling too, it’s incredible writing so props to Taeshi. But some people really need to take a breather or something,,

funniest comment of the week award

I cackled way too hard at this. 😂

Its incredibly manipulative after how she disregarded him for months, now that she can use him to hurt mike …now she cares about the promise….

it is manipulative, she throws him to the curb, disregards his feelings completely and his friendship, and now she is using him to get back at Mike. She comes back to his life after months of ignoring him, and the first thing he does is ‘Hold him accountable’ to a promise she refused.

I hope Paulo calls her out on this later!

Same

It’s the fact that she first said no and is now turning it around when it suits her

It’s 100% manipulation and it’s kinda crazy to me people are even debating this

People are seeing this as manipulation because it’s manipulation lol

Oh my god, someone finally said it…. MA!!! GET THE CAMERA!!!! ITS FINALLY HAPPENING!!!!

pretty simple, actually

asking about something they said they’d do earlier: not manipulation

giving permission to do something that might go against that, then pulling out the above: manipulation

when you do that you’re lulling someone into a false sense of security to maximise the guilt they feel for changing their mind. especially when circumstances have changed in the past month or so that would mean those words hold little weight any more

“Go see him. I’m sure he wouldn’t mind some sympathy.”

also, what on Earth are you talking about when you’re going on about subsequent conversations? it’s the same conversation

Lmfao I love Paulo x Daisy, but I can’t be mad at you for trying to make that Maisy ship sail. 😂

this chapter will hit mucy maulo mames and maisy all in one

I really hope Paulo and Daisy don’t break up over this. However, I can also see why it might happen. Especially, if Daisy begins to see him in a different light due to how easily Paulo switched up on Mike for Lucy. Yet, I’m really hoping things work out for them. They’re such a sweet couple. 😩

Tylily please! Just spare my ship this once. 😂

Kinda nostalgic as Daisy was also the only one to remind the crew that Lucy was abusive when they found out about december

I hope Paulo doesn’t end his friendship with Mike because of that, I also hope that Lucy realizes how she’s acting.

I’m honestly worried or having a premonition the it’s not Lucy or Mike that the group will leave,

It’s the group leaving both of them.

honestly being forced to reckon with how their feud affects everyone around them might do both of them some good lol

@SomeColourMage hell, the feud is even spilling out into the audience 😅. Knock it off, you two!

lol I swear I’m not deliberately starting any fights, I just like pointing out issues in trains of thought too much for my own good

I’ve been on Team Everyone Sucks in this chapter for a while now, maybe thinking people were a little too harsh on James but still not happy with everything he said lol

Honestly, the one person I personally want to see being there for Mike is Haley. While technically a bg character, she’s been getting set up more and more as having issues with dodging family responsibility, and her actually stepping up for her family and helping Mike stablize with platonic, unconditional love would be some major character development for her, especially if she needs to miss a party to care for Mike at his lowest point.

Mike apologized for the way he treated her on Halloween. Although… I’m not sure if he’ll try to kiss her if she does try to check on him.

He did but it was needlessly cruel and I feel that more than just an apology is needed to make up for that. And with how volatile he is right now I feel like it’s just going to end up with him lashing out at her again. Or worse given his track record with romantic interests…

Very very much agreed. Considering how Mike handles love interests when he’s low, I really think the best thing would be help from someone platonic.

he accused her of being cruel at work because the next time they talked to each other after that fight, she yelled at him for no immediately apparent reason, which is something she acknowledged was uncalled for. it wasn’t really her fault, because the conversation inadvertently triggered her, but the end result was that Paulo believed she hated him now, which combined with her missing part of the conversation when she was disassociating, caused her to not pick up enough information and come up with a plan that made both Paulo and Daisy read her intentions the wrong way. holding that against either Paulo or Lucy misses that it was one big accident

the manipulation accusations are based entirely in how she presented it. if she had just pointed out what was said, it would be fine. but she instead told Paulo to go see Mike before hitting him with that., which is generally seen as a way to mess with people. also, how do you also know it wasn’t meant to make him stay? she may not want him romantically, but she was promised the idea that everybody would be happy to see her. that includes him

(the constant Gendo posing probably isn’t helping either lmao)

as for words not carrying any weight, in the same conversation Lucy’s bringing up now, she said that nobody here is her friend. so are her words allowed to not mean anything?

Exactly

I agree.

It’s what Im thinking at this point, it’s just a never ending cycle between them

I honestly would not be suprise if it reaches to the point that both groups decide to leave Lucy and Mike behind.

Cause this is just a repeat between them at this point with no real resolve or healing

Mike and Paulo did show up for Lucy during December

She pushed them away.